Why Ed Noonan is just plain wrong about the AIP

Here is a rebuttal to Ed’s claims about the AIP, its bylaws, and many other things…

* * *

Ed Noonan: My name is Edward C. Noonan; I am the current State Party Chairman of the American Independent Party. I am announcing today that the American Independent Party has had only four American Independent Party voters elected by their respective counties to the office their County Central Committee for the American Independent Party.

Cody Quirk: Yet that doesn’t mean they are not members of the State Central Committee.

EN: Thus, we only have four people in the entire State of California qualified to act in the party’s name.

CQ: WRONG!

In California Elections Code, Section 7643, concerning county central committees-

“…This committee…” (as referring to the State Central Committee) “..shall have power to appoint interim county central committees in all counties in which the voters have not elected one or more county central committee members in the direct primary preceding the organization of this committee. Persons appointed to interim county central committees pursuant to this section shall meet the qualifications otherwise required by Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 7650) for appointees to fill vacancies on county central committees…”
“...Interim county central committees appointed pursuant to this section shall have all of the powers and privileges afforded county central committees by the provisions of Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 7650)…”

So, not all County Chairpersons have to be made official County Chairs by running for office!

I believe there are more then 4 AIP County Chairs in California currently, most are interim county committees, of course, who were appointed by the Chair & the Committee.

EN: I feel it sad that the 40 to 80 people that were active in the party during the last two years either refused to run for state office, or run for their county central committee. I begged, and I pleaded for AIP’ers everywhere to run for State Office - there were 153 state positions open. The requirement was to either get 150 signatures or pay $3500. I also needed 1,450+ individuals (who were AIP voters) to run for their county central committee.

CQ: Being interim county central committees, they didn’t have to run for office. Period.

I recall that a David Christensen was trying to run in his Congressional District, yet Mr. Noonan didn’t bother to help him since David was critical of the way you governed the AIP, and so he fell a few short of the signatures required to get on the ballot.

I also recall that you were busy attacking members of the AIP and butting heads with anybody that disagreed with you- that probably was a morale killer in running for office, don’t you think?
Henceforth nobody really wanted to run for office.

EN: But only 3 ran (and won) for county central committee, and 1 ran for Congress.

CQ: I’m not surprised, especially with the way you ran the Party.

EN:According to the state elections code, after the Primary this month, all former offices, terms and positions held by these former 40 to 80 members have ended. (It is limited to a two year term.)

CQ: All it says is this-

“Sec. 7670: At every direct primary election a county central committee shall be elected in each county.”

Yet for the interim County Committees, nobody had put their names on the ballot to challenge the incumbent interim Chairmen in the 2008 Primary. Therefore, interim county chairmen are not necessarily term limited and may only have to simply take the Oath of Office in Article 20 of the California State Constitution every 2 years again, and/or have the State Committee re-sustain them.

EN: What I am stating, is that the Primary is over… we have only one officer of the seven State Party Officers that ran for election in their County… that was me! Our Secretary, our Treasurer, and others did not run, and did not get elected. Hence, their appointed term is over because they failed to be elected by the voters of their county. They weren’t willing to go out and get 25 signatures to get elected!

CQ: They don’t have to, and they’re still valid members of their committee and the Party.

“Sec. 7600: The state central committee shall consist of all of the following persons: >(a) All delegates to the state convention. (b) The chairperson of each county central committee of the party. (c) Members appointed pursuant to this part. (d) Any person nominated to fill a vacancy in a partisan office in a special election.”

Another thing-

“Sec. 7603: Each delegate to the state convention shall appoint to membership on this committee one voter of the same sex as the delegate and two voters of the opposite sex. These appointments when so made shall be absolute.”

EN: In addition, most of our National Committee is dissolved. Only three of the 12 actually were elected by their county voters (Gerry Hill, and Grace Hill and I.)

CQ: Sec. 7639: “The state central committee or its executive committee shall designate by resolution or bylaw the national committee or party organization with which the American Independent Party is affiliated and shall file a copy of the resolution or bylaw with the Secretary of State.”

Since When do National Committeemen & women have to elected by their Party voters?

EN: We only had one person elected in the primary as a Congressional nominee. And that is Robert Lautenberg of Orange County. This makes him the ex-officio member of his central committee.
As some of you know, I have some APPOINTED DELEGATES who were appointed by the former State Chair are trying to run this party.

CQ: Unfortunately, for Ed Noonan, the State Committee runs the Party, not the Chairman only!

If one reads Sec. 7637-7645

Or Sec. 7610-7614

You will see that it speaks of the State Central Committee, not the Chair, as having the power to make appointments and so forth.

EN: However, they failed to achieve current official status by being elected by their county to the office of county central committee.

CQ: Apparently simpleton Ed hasn’t read the bylaws that well-

Again:

“Sec. 7600: The state central committee shall consist of all of the following persons: (a) All delegates to the state convention. (b) The chairperson of each county central committee of the party. (c) Members appointed pursuant to this part. (d) Any person nominated to fill a vacancy in a partisan office in a special election.”

&

“Sec. 7603: Each delegate to the state convention shall appoint to membership on this committee one voter of the same sex as the delegate and two voters of the opposite sex. These appointments when so made shall be absolute.”

Who says you have to run for office in order to be a State Central Committee member?

Only Ed does.

EN: None of them have been sworn in by their county clerk.

CQ: Except the interim County Chairmen who were previously appointed.

EN: What right do they as possible future appointees have to have more power over me…

CQ: Being delegates to the previous State Convention, and also being appointed by other delegates. They are official State Central Committee members that can vote you out of office if they so choose.

EN: I have been elected and have complied with the elections code and they have not!

CQ: Wrong Ed! The State Chairman HAS NO POWER to solely choose who will be on the State Central Committee or who is to be a County Chairman. Read the Elections Code!

EN: The words “ELECTIONS CODE” means everyone that it refers to MUST BE ELECTED!

CQ: LOL that’s what you base your argument of having to be elected by the people of a local office to be in the Leadership of the Party on?!
Apparently Mr. Noonan just may be a future nominee on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals due to his interpretations of the law.

EN: Therefore as of this June’s Primary, they have no official standing in our party.

CQ: Read Sec. 7600 again! You are wrong and your interpretation of the Elections Code is wrong!

CQ: They are attempting to take over the party…they are having a bogus STATE CONVENTION MEETING in Los Angeles and they are violating the Elections Code.

CQ: No they did not!

“Sec. 7570: The state convention shall meet biennially, at a location designated by the state central committee, at 10 a.m. on a Saturday following the direct primary election, but in no event later than August 15.

And yet again, in Sec. 7600a & c the State Convention was valid and legal.

Mr. Noonan obviously doesn’t know the elections code at all.

EN: Nowhere can they prove they have legal standing.

CQ: The above proved otherwise.

EN: Since they failed to be elected by the voters of their county, they have no say whatsoever in the running of the American Independent Party.

CQ: Again, Ed is dead wrong, THEY DON’T HAVE TO BE ELECTED TO OFFICE TO BE ON THE STATE CENTRAL COMMITTEE, it says so in the Elections code, duh!

EN: If they want a say, they have to wait two years and be elected to take over the party properly.

CQ: A load of hogwash from a idiotic madman.

EN: I have conferred with the three other ELECTED State Committee members…and all three have sided with me on three issues.

CQ: Could they have been Mark Seidenburg, Marham Robinson, and Jerry Hill at all?
Perhaps they’ll turn a blind eye to the elections code like you.

EN: #1. The American Independent Party will disaffiliate with the Constitution Party. Howard Phillips, and Chuck Baldwin (2008 CP Presidential Candidate) has sided with the Bogus Party mutineers and have supported Gary Odom and Nancy Spirkoff who do not live in California but have attempted to control me who is the State Chairman and make me a puppet to their will.

CQ: No, they have treated you with the uttermost respect, until you begin acting irrationally and appointing people under investigation for hate crimes as County Chairmen. They have repeatedly presented the olive branch to you and yet you behaved like a jerk and a lunatic to them and the other members of the AIP.

EN: #2. The American Independent Party will support and campaign for Alan Keyes who is running for President of the United States.

CQ: The same man that is a political opportunist and who is not in conformity with the Platforms of the CP and AIP on Foreign Policy and the United Nations. Interesting that Mr. Keyes is on only 1 or 2 state ballots. Unlike Chuck Baldwin.

EN: The four of us have decided that Alan Keyes has the best chance of getting into office and stopping the North American Union and the open border policies that the US exists under.

CQ: And the four of you are acting against the majority of AIP state committee members that nominated Chuck Baldwin at the LA Convention last weekend. Hacking in and hijacking the copyrighted AIP website when it is not owned by you or your associates is downright unfair and petty of you.

EN: And stopping the cut-throat, oppressive taxes and national debt that our Central Bank called the Federal Reserve System. This Central Bank has helped the US get into 9.2 trillion dollars in debt, and has bankrupted our economy. Foreclosures are high, our money is worthless, and we have become tax slaves.

#3. We believe it is time to affiliate with a new party. One that has a will to win. In ten years, the Constitution Party has NEVER had a candidate elected… in any state, any county… anywhere.

CQ: Wrong! The CP has nearly 15 people holding office as of today, in the states of, Nevada, Florida, Michigan, Utah, West Virginia, and Minnesota, see here.

Mr. Noonan, you are perhaps the most stupidest political man I’ve ever met.

EN: We have decided that Alan Keyes’ new party called America’s Independent Party may be the best chance we have of giving resistance to the never-ending advance of socialism and communism within our borders. We need a strong Party that will work FOR US and not AGAINST US to stop the NEW WORLD ORDER and the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

CQ: Funny how his new Party doesn’t have ballot access anywhere! Unlike the Constitution Party. Perhaps joining the America First Party would’ve been more rational.

EN: The Constitution Party has consistently backed Nancy Spirkoff, the daughter of one of the founders of the American Independent Party.

CQ: Wrong. He was THE Founder.

EN: When this founder, Bill Shearer, died, Nancy thought she inherited the American Independent Party. This is not true.

CQ: Then why didn’t she try to run for State Chair again? In fact why is she living in Canada now with her new husband instead?

EN:The American Independent Party cannot be inherited. She was the former State Party Chairman before, but state law requires that she can only hold one term as State Chair and then she is termed out.

CQ: The Elections code doesn’t say anything about becoming Chair again in the future, however Nancy never wanted to be Chair again and is living in Canada now.

EN: The Constitution Party supported Nancy Spirkoff and her friend Gary Odom (Field Director of the Constitution Party) and never once has acknowledged my position as State Party Chair.

CQ: BS! They had listed you as their State Contact on the CP website, as State Chair!

EN: Neither Nancy Spirkoff nor Gary Odom have any official standing in the American Independent Party, both have moved out of the State of California but both are attempting to use Nancy’s sister, Ann Thomas (formerly the Secretary of the Party) (questionable status as a qualified member of the State Committee)

CQ: Not according to the Elections Code, Ed.

EN: and are interfering with the running of the American Independent Party.
As State Chairman of the American Independent Party, I say this must stop! It ends here today.

CQ: It did, you are no longer Chairman of the AIP as of last weekend.

EN: There are only four that have any legal standing in the party.

CQ: As I have cited numerous times above, you are dead, dead wrong.

EN: I have appointed no-one from neither Los Angeles, nor San Diego mutineering group at this time and date. They have no standing, nor legal merit.

CQ: That’s for the State Committee to decide, NOT YOU.
Read the bylaws.

EN: The time to run and campaign for the American Independent Party was over at the June Primary. They had their chance and now the running for office is over… no bogus claim to office will be accepted.

CQ: Then you are in complete violation of the State Elections code, as I have cited.

EN:The current American Independent Party is a joke

CQ: The one you control certainly is.

EN: and we need to re-chart our course and rebuild our organization with people that are willing to be elected to office…from county level on up.

CQ: Go ahead and shrink the tent. After all, your claims are not legally valid, nor in agreement with the Elections code itself.

96 Responses to “Why Ed Noonan is just plain wrong about the AIP”

  1. Richard Winger Says:

    Cody did a lot of hard work, analyzing the parts of the California Election Code that explain the rules of the American Independent Party. I’ll be watching this thread with great interest.

  2. Mike Gillis Says:

    Richard,

    Do you predict any sort of lawsuit over the CA ballot line?

  3. Richard Winger Says:

    If Ed Noonan’s convention tomorrow in Sacramento has a very small number of delegates, I expect the California Secretary of State to recognize the Los Angeles convention. The Los Angeles convention was careful to keep a roster, which has been sent to the California Secretary of State.

  4. Trent Hill Says:

    The Los Angeles convention also hired an outside consultant to act as parliamentarian, to make sure all business was conducted correctly. They sent out a notice 30 days prior to the convention,as is required by law (the Noonan group didnt), and 9 of the officers in the party called the Los Angeles meeting,whereas only 3 are calling the Sacramento meeting.

    Im expecting a lawsuit. Mark Siedenberg, the current vice-chair and stooge of Ed Noonan, has money—-and he’ll likely use it to hire some Republican Orange County lawyer.

    I say let him waste his money.

  5. Ricky Martin Says:

    Bob Barr all the way

    Barr or None

    Raise the Barr www.bobbarr2008.com

    or if you are a liberal

    www.votenader.org

    Say no to the two party system

  6. Andy Craig Says:

    Meh. A bunch of theocrats destroying each other isn’t too much to weep over. Hopefully the debacle will scare off people who were considering voting for Ayatollah Baldwin (or that fool Keyes) over Barr.

  7. Jonathan Says:

    Ayatolla Baldwin, it’s so true

    I love it

  8. Michael Says:

    More like the Ayatolla Howard Phillips. He’s the one who runs the entire party.

  9. Michael Says:

    Note to Andy—I notice you say Keyes is a fool. Being a fool and being wrong are two different things.

  10. Open Letter From Don Lake Says:

    Ivy League Know It All Keyes a fool? Maybe merely to arrogant and ‘smart’ for his own good….....

  11. Deemer from California Says:

    I attended the Los Angeles SCC & Convention last week-end & it went
    smoothly. Noonan doesn’e even know how to count heads. In Orange
    County, Larry Breazeale a former AIP legislative candidate collected
    the sainted 25 signatures along with Elliott Graham (‘06 Congress 29
    candidate) in Los Angeles County. So by his reasoning they should
    have been consulted on when to hold the State Convention & State
    Central Committee meeting. He also is neglecting the AIP State-wide
    candidates from 2006. Their terms on the SCC don’t expire until the
    June, 2010 primary.

  12. Deemer from California Says:

    Oops, I left out Don Grundmann the AIP 2006 U. S. Senate candidate
    against Barbara Boxer. Even if he does not run for any other office
    his term won’t expire until the June, 2012 primary.

  13. Cody Quirk Says:

    Thanks Richard, it wasn’t easy doing the research.

  14. JT Says:

    Are you kidding me with this post? If you’re going for unbearably tedious and boring, an extremely long screed about the American Independence Party in California and various election code intricacies is a wonderful idea.

  15. DIAMOND DAVE Says:

    I agree with JT

  16. Andy Craig Says:

    Michael-

    He’s both.

  17. Cody Quirk Says:

    Are you kidding me with this post? If you’re going for unbearably tedious and boring, an extremely long screed about the American Independence Party in California and various election code intricacies is a wonderful idea.

    = I’m sorry, I didn’t think it proper to use swearing and “Boooga-Booga-BOO!’ in the article.

    Maybe you anti-religious bigots can read something better, like a Richard Dawkins book.

    BTW it’s ‘American Independent Party’ NOT “American Independence Party”, your ignorance is quite apparent.

  18. Andy Craig Says:

    You’re the one who’s a member of a party that believes in the “right” of states to ban “offensive sexual practices”.

    You don’t really have room to be calling any one a bigot.

  19. Rich Says:

    Isn’t laughable how a party that claims to be the #3 in terms of registration, The American Independent Party, has never elected anyone to office in California. The truth is 99% of the sheeple that register AIP, think they are registering as “Independent”. The Constitution Party actually has some first class people working and building the party around our country. Unfortunately, in California the Constitution Party will never achieve any electoral success because the AIP is an albatross that still highlights it’s segrationist history from the 1960’s. Wake my consevative friends, this is 2008 not 1968. Does the AIP that embraces the George Wallace of 1968 embrace the George Wallace that became a tax & spend, affirmative action supporting liberal Govemor in the 1980’s.

    My condolences to the Constitution Party, they deserve better than the AIP in California.

  20. Red Phillips Says:

    Ugh! Do the atheistic jihadist have to inject their God hating into every CP/AIP thread?

    What a bunch of children.

  21. Chuck Moulton Says:

    Someone forgot to close the bold tag.

  22. Tom Yager Says:

    Cody has done a fine job of documenting the strength of his case. Although I disagree with the Constitution Party on many issues, I am quite sympathetic to their attempt to keep their California ballot lines from being hijacked by a sore loser.

    One minor correction: Alan Keyes is on the ballot in Colorado. He paid the $500 filing fee to get on as an independent. That’s the only state that I’m aware of where he has ballot access.

  23. Rich Says:

    I rest my case!

    Newsom’s girlfriend registers with the AIP
    July 5th, 2008 · 11 Comments

    From the San Franciso Chronicle…

    It turns out, however, that the onetime Republican registered as a member of the American Independent Party - the anti-immigrant, anti-abortion, anti-NAFTA and anti-tax party.

    San Francisco’s election rolls show Siebel cast her ballot using the Green Street address both in November, when Newsom was re-elected, and during February’s presidential primary. But because she was affiliated with the American Independent Party, she was ineligible to vote for any of the Democratic or Republican presidential contenders, including Newsom’s pick, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    The mayor’s office tells us Siebel is actually an independent voter - “decline to state,” in registration lingo - and checked the American Independent box thinking that was what independent voters were supposed to do.

    She has since changed her affiliation to “decline to state,” mayoral spokesman Nathan Ballard said.

    It appears Siebel is far from the only voter to mistake the American Independents for independents.

    According to Contra Costa County Registrar Stephen Weir, president of the state association of county election officials, 2 percent of California voters identify themselves as member of the American Independent Party. That’s a lot more than other minor parties, including the Greens (0.77 percent); Libertarians (0.5 percent) and Peace and Freedom (0.35 percent.)

    Nearly 20 percent of California’s voters, in contrast, are registered as decline to state.

    Weir says the secretary of state is working on redesigning registration forms to make it clear that the American Independents are an actual party, and not unaligned.

  24. DIAMOND DAVE Says:

    well I’m Jewish but I refuse to be sheep like my people in Germany in the 1940s . I will enter every thread that emposes religion upon others. Never again my brother!

    this country has no wars because religion is not imposed upon others, because there is seperation of church and state.

    I will work as hard as I can to stop any Third Party to use religion to control , motivate, and manipulate people.

    No more Hitler’s or I’ll die trying

  25. Clay Says:

    Newsom’s girlfriend registers with the AIP:
    The mayor’s office tells us Siebel is actually an independent voter - “decline to state,” in registration lingo - and checked the American Independent box thinking that was what independent voters were supposed to do.

    And to think this ding bat cancels out my vote. If my girlfriend was this dumb I would not make it public.

  26. JT Says:

    Cork: “BTW it’s ‘American Independent Party’ NOT “American Independence Party”, your ignorance is quite apparent.”

    Um, who cares? Almost no one has heard of it except for those who register AIP by mistake, thinking they’re just registering as an “Independent.”

    Anyway, this is a site for third-party news, not overlong diatribes comparing how various passages in the California election code relate to the statements of an AIP official. Tedious and boring. Yawn.

  27. Cody Quirk Says:

    You’re the one who’s a member of a party that believes in the “right” of states to ban “offensive sexual practices”.

    You don’t really have room to be calling any one a bigot.

    = You come in here bashing the beliefs held by millions of people. BTW the 10th Amendment perfectly allows for regulation of ‘sexual practices’, in fact the states did do so back in the Founding Fathers times.

    = BTW secularism and militant athiesm have killed way more people in History then all the religions combined. How do you feel about that?

    Isn’t laughable how a party that claims to be the #3 in terms of registration, The American Independent Party, has never elected anyone to office in California.

    = Wrong! Mike Triggs was elected to a School Board in LA back in the 1980’s, and AIP member Thomas Goodloe was a El Dorado County Supervisor in the early 70’s.

    = There are 2 AIP’ers that were appointed to office years ago and are still serving today.

    The truth is 99% of the sheeple that register AIP, think they are registering as “Independent”. The Constitution Party actually has some first class people working and building the party around our country.

    = FYI just a few months ago, the Cali. Secretary of State had all the county Reg. of voters in the whole state send out notices to AIP voters that the AIP is actually a political party and not a ‘decline to state’ choice, the AIP website was included in the letters. And judging by the last voter. reg. statistics in late May, the AIP numbers are still around 330,000.

    Unfortunately, in California the Constitution Party will never achieve any electoral success because the AIP is an albatross that still highlights it’s segrationist history from the 1960’s.

    = Since when did the AIP advocate for White Supremacy, I’m not talking about that Leftest rhetoric on ‘States Rights’, I’m talking about actual racial supremacy.

    = No they didn’t. In fact during 1972, there was a effort by Nixon GOP’ers and neo-Nazis to force the AIP off the California ballot, the Nazis hated the AIP, since the AIP cooperated with the Peace & Freedom Party on reforming the ballot access laws in the state.
    They failed to get the AIP off the ballot.

    = BTW, during a AIP convention in the late 70’s, Tom Metzger tried to set up a booth outside the convention hall. Guess what happened?
    He was forced to pack up this things and removed perminantly.

    Wake my consevative friends, this is 2008 not 1968. Does the AIP that embraces the George Wallace of 1968 embrace the George Wallace that became a tax & spend, affirmative action supporting liberal Govemor in the 1980’s.

    = The AIP fought George Wallace after 1968 because he wanted to control the Party and the AIP leaders didn’t want that. So think again if AIP’ers adore Wallace, since he went back to being a Democrat not long afterwords.

    My condolences to the Constitution Party, they deserve better than the AIP in California.

    = They got the IAP in Nevada.

    Weir says the secretary of state is working on redesigning registration forms to make it clear that the American Independents are an actual party, and not unaligned.

    = They already did that. Little has changed.

    well I’m Jewish but I refuse to be sheep like my people in Germany in the 1940s . I will enter every thread that emposes religion upon others. Never again my brother!

    = That should go for athiests too.

    this country has no wars because religion is not imposed upon others, because there is seperation of church and state.

    = Not back in the old days. Us Mormons were driven from state to state and almost eterminated because of our beliefs.

    I will work as hard as I can to stop any Third Party to use religion to control , motivate, and manipulate people.

    = Will you do the same against fundamentalist athiesm? I will.

    No more Hitler’s or I’ll die trying

    = Seems that JT, Andy Craig, and Michael are athiest Hitlers in the making.

    Um, who cares? Almost no one has heard of it except for those who register AIP by mistake, thinking they’re just registering as an “Independent.”

    = Ok, all non-Communist dictators are true democratic freedom fighters against the tide of Marxism, how bout’ that?
    Or black people cannot be trusted around a white woman alone. That may not be true, but who cares?

    (sarcasm off)

    Anyway, this is a site for third-party news, not overlong diatribes comparing how various passages in the California election code relate to the statements of an AIP official. Tedious and boring. Yawn.

    = TPW is not for news only, it also includes articles from TPW candidates, including the views and beliefs of Bob Barr. I guess Bob needs to be shut up here because he’s saying his opinion.

    (sarcasm off)

    If you don’t like TPW for its diversity of topics on Third Party subjects and matters, then go to some DNC blogspot then, Mr. Ignoramous.

  28. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ah, it looks like Richard has taken note of my article.

    http://www.ballot-access.org/2008/07/04/cody-quirk-analyzes-california-aip-rules/#comments

  29. DIAMOND DAVE Says:

    if i want to fuck with a chick on top of me, or if i want fuck her in the ass, it’s my business. if I want to have my wife and her friend lick my balls, again its our business

  30. Cody Quirk Says:

    if i want to fuck with a chick on top of me, or if i want fuck her in the ass, it’s my business. if I want to have my wife and her friend lick my balls, again its our business

    = If communities want to ban porn over the counter in stores, its their business, or if they want to prohibit people from wearing certain clothes, again its their business.
    If a state wants to ban gay marriage and civil unions, its their right, if another state wants to do the opposite and have no laws on obscenity, that’s their right too.

  31. RRHeustisJr Says:

    I’ll try to close the bold tag.

    How’s that?

  32. RRHeustisJr Says:

    Guess not.

  33. D Kennedy Says:

    Someone needs to tell the optimistic 20 followers of Keyes that they are a laughable crew of zealots. His support has dwindled so much over the past ten years to where he is the biggest joke in politics.

  34. D Kennedy Says:

    */end bold

  35. Mark Seidenberg Says:

    I was the Chairman of the Convention at the Secretary of State Building’s
    auditorium in Sacramento, California of the AIP. The Convention nominated Dr. Alan Keyes for President and pastor Wiley Drake for Vice
    President. Wiley Drake in a member of the Orange County County Central
    Committee of the AIP. It was the State Central Committee that set the
    location at the auditorium of the Secretary of States within the Election Codes section 7608(b) and 7620. First the location of both the Convention
    and today’s (viz., July 6, 2008) State Central Committee not only are in
    the same Sacramento cummunity (Note: Sacramento is divided up into
    ten communities and the City Center is the named Sacramento cummunity
    where both the Convention met & on today the AIP State Central Committee will meet.

    The events in Los Angeles last weekend were bogus and void. The nine officer that called the bogus AIP Convention did not take their suggested
    location to the State Central Committee for approval. These 9 officers
    are not the entire central committee. In fact they made up a very small
    cabal of the state central committee, in light of the fact that well over
    45 Delegates accepted to the Sacramento Convention of AIP on July 5,
    2008. Even Don Grunmann one of the nine that signed the
    document calling for a Los Angeles Convention in violation of the By-Laws
    of this party and at least five sections of the California Elecltion Code,
    showed up at the Sacramento AIP convention to give his views on
    on a Alan Keyes ticket.

    The AIP has hired the election law firn of Wewer & Lacy of Laguna Niguel,
    California to deal with those bogus events in Los Angeles Westin Hotel of
    last weekend.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

    Vice Chairman
    American Independent Party

  36. D Kennedy Says:

    As expected, Mark spearheads the litigation that is expected of a desperate group of self-serving zealots.
    At least learn how to spell “community” so we wont think you are entirely without credibility.
    Keyes has never gone anywhere, Keyes is not going anywhere and the break-away faction of the AIP in CA is not going anywhere with their attitude and singular actions.
    Alan Keyes will be a bigger joke after this then he is now, if that is at all possible. The law and the facts, as usual, are distorted by Keyes supporters. And THAT, my friends, is why he has almost zero support.

    Keyes is proving himself a malignant narcissist.

  37. D Kennedy Says:

    And as far as Drake is concerned, he has much bigger problems now!

    http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/gimme-that-oc-religion/wiley-drake-reverend-or-ayatol/

  38. Andy Craig Says:

    “You come in here bashing the beliefs held by millions of people”

    So says the guy who in the next breath accuses atheism of being responsible for genocide.

    BTW the 10th Amendment perfectly allows for regulation of ‘sexual practices’, in fact the states did do so back in the Founding Fathers times”

    Setting aside the question of the 14th Amendment, the 10th says nothing about rights. States have no rights. They have powers which are Constitutionally protected from Federal interference.

    Also, the Founding Fathers also owned slaves. Just because they did something doesn’t make it right. And I say that as someone who admires them greatly.

    “BTW secularism and militant athiesm have killed way more people in History then all the religions combined. How do you feel about that?”

    I feel it’s laughably absurd. First the idea that atheists have killed more people than Christians is ridiculous, considering that the number of Christians who’ve ever lived outnumber the number of atheists by a ratio of about eleventy billion to one. Second, a religious belief (or non-belief) is an abstract idea- an inanimate object. It can’t be blamed as though it were an individual. That’s on the same level as saying “Guns kill people”. No, people kill people, and only the individual murderer can be held responsible.

    “Seems that JT, Andy Craig, and Michael are athiest Hitlers in the making”

    Hitler wasn’t an atheist. He was nominally a Catholic but all records indicate that he didn’t really give much attention to the matter of religion in his private life.

    Thomas Paine was an atheist, though. Along with several Founding Fathers who were non-Christian Deists- in effect, the atheists of their day. Thomas Jefferson published an edited version of the Gospels that removed all references to the supernatural in an attempt to get to the “true meaning” of Christ’s message, which he correctly thought had been heavily edited in the 1800 years since he died. What do you think of that?

  39. Red Phillips Says:

    Wiley Drake is no “ayatollah” whatever that is supposed to mean. Unfortunately he is an interventionist, as is Keyes.

    I wish the atheist brigade would at least make a polite argument, instead of throwing out a few labels and acting as if that constitutes some sort of intelligent debate. Goes with their mental age, I guess.

  40. Andy Craig Says:

    “If communities want to ban porn over the counter in stores, its their business, or if they want to prohibit people from wearing certain clothes, again its their business.”

    No, it is only the business of the buyer and seller.

    Though it’s nice to see it made so clear- the “Constitution” Party still wants tyranny, they just want it localized.

  41. Andy Craig Says:

    RP-

    Considering that people here are accusing me of being “the next atheist Hitler”, I don’t think they have any room to complain about politeness.

  42. Andy Craig Says:

    You believe there’s an invisible man—living in the sky—who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ‘til the end of time!

    But He loves you.

    And we’re the ones who’re mentally deficient?

    /Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless George Carlin

  43. Red Phillips Says:

    “Thomas Jefferson published an edited version of the Gospels that removed all references to the supernatural in an attempt to get to the “true meaning” of Christ’s message, which he correctly thought had been heavily edited in the 1800 years since he died. What do you think of that?”

    Don’t you just love it when people who obviously despise Christianity tell us what real Christianity is supposed to be about? The supernatural parts are part of the true meaning of Christ’s message. That whole thing about Him being the Son of God, you know. And that dying on the cross for your sins and then rising again is a pretty integral part of that true meaning, don’t you think?

  44. Andy Craig Says:

    RP-

    I’m not telling any one what the “real meaning” is. I don’t really care about the “real meaning” of a guy’s message who may or may not have lived 2,000 years ago in some tribal backwater. That’s what Jefferson said, though.

  45. disinter Says:

    Can somebody teach Cody Quirk how to use the “more” tag?

  46. DIAMOND DAVE Says:

    Everyone should be able to believe in what they want. everyone should respect each other but don’t impose it. Thi sis not IRAN. This is why the US is the greates country in the world because we don’t mix religion with politics.

    How would you like it if I told you the truth that you are praying to a dead jew and his name is not Jesus , after all there were no Hispanics in Israel at that time. How would you like me to tell you “Jesus” as really a religious Jew whose last supper was Passover and he had a Yamilka and ate matza in a ROUND table. Jews did not eat in rectangular tables at that point in time. How would you like me to tell you the truth that Jesus did not look like a 60’s hippie and looked very much like I do , a jew.
    How would you like to know he had sex just like you and me. WOW this is only the beginning.

  47. JT Says:

    First, I’m not an atheist. Second, Bob Barr’s public policy statements ARE news because he’s the Libertarian nominee for president. Lunatic.

  48. Cody Quirk Says:

    I was the Chairman of the Convention at the Secretary of State Building’s
    auditorium in Sacramento, California of the AIP. The Convention nominated Dr. Alan Keyes for President and pastor Wiley Drake for Vice
    President. Wiley Drake in a member of the Orange County County Central
    Committee of the AIP. It was the State Central Committee that set the
    location at the auditorium of the Secretary of States within the Election Codes section 7608(b) and 7620.

    = In 7608(b), it only talks about the state committee meeting in Sacramento, not the convention itself! This Election Code is also addressed in Chapter 3 on the State Central Committee, NOT in Chapter 2, which address the State Convention!

    First the location of both the Convention
    and today’s (viz., July 6, 2008) State Central Committee not only are in
    the same Sacramento cummunity (Note: Sacramento is divided up into
    ten communities and the City Center is the named Sacramento cummunity
    where both the Convention met & on today the AIP State Central Committee will meet.

    = If the State Convention has to be in Sacremento, then it will say exactely that it must meet in Sacramento in Sec. 7570.
    It doesn’t.

    The events in Los Angeles last weekend were bogus and void. The nine officer that called the bogus AIP Convention did not take their suggested
    location to the State Central Committee for approval.

    = The Officers are part of the State Central Committee, and they did have a State Committee meeting in LA on the 28th, which didn’t oppose the Convention taking place. However, didn’t Ed say that there were only 4 people that could act in the Party’s name, and yet you claim that those 9 officers are a minority?

    = BTW, was that meeting you had last Friday legal?

    These 9 officers
    are not the entire central committee. In fact they made up a very small
    cabal of the state central committee, in light of the fact that well over
    45 Delegates accepted to the Sacramento Convention of AIP on July 5,
    2008.

    = Did all of those 45 vote unanimously? In fact were any of those 45 people delegates to the LA Convention that were visiting your convention?

    Even Don Grunmann one of the nine that signed the
    document calling for a Los Angeles Convention in violation of the By-Laws
    of this party and at least five sections of the California Elecltion Code,
    showed up at the Sacramento AIP convention to give his views on
    on a Alan Keyes ticket.

    = He didn’t want your meeting to be one-sided, which you guys intended to do.

    The AIP has hired the election law firn of Wewer & Lacy of Laguna Niguel,
    California to deal with those bogus events in Los Angeles Westin Hotel of
    last weekend.

    = Isn’t that a partisan GOP firm? If so, then that says it right there.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

    Vice Chairman
    American Independent Party

    = BTW Jim King and company are quite prepared for a lawsuit. You don’t scare well at all.

  49. DIAMOND DAVE Says:

    wow in the spirit of boring us to death and bragging he finished elementary school, Cody Queer continues his vagina monologues…..

  50. Cody Quirk Says:

    Setting aside the question of the 14th Amendment, the 10th says nothing about rights. States have no rights. They have powers which are Constitutionally protected from Federal interference.

    = So having ‘powers’ isn’t a right?
    Indeed states have the ‘power’ to decide on the issue of gay marriage, without the fed getting involved.

    Also, the Founding Fathers also owned slaves. Just because they did something doesn’t make it right. And I say that as someone who admires them greatly.

    = The Constitution now prohibits slavery. No need to change that.

    “BTW secularism and militant athiesm have killed way more people in History then all the religions combined. How do you feel about that?”

    I feel it’s laughably absurd. First the idea that atheists have killed more people than Christians is ridiculous, considering that the number of Christians who’ve ever lived outnumber the number of atheists by a ratio of about eleventy billion to one.

    = That’s what you base your rebuttal on?! LOL!
    The governments of the Soviet Union, and China, and the other were athiest & secular, since they prohibited and punished religion and replaced any form of religious expression with worshipping the state and its leader, literally. And such regimes made Nazi Germany look weak in comparison to the millions of people that died under them.

    Second, a religious belief (or non-belief) is an abstract idea- an inanimate object. It can’t be blamed as though it were an individual.

    = Yet you’ve blaimed religion for killing people and supressing rights. Look whose talking.

    That’s on the same level as saying “Guns kill people”. No, people kill people, and only the individual murderer can be held responsible.

    = Which means the Puritans where responsible for the deaths of people they put to the stake, not Christianity or Protestantism in general.

    “Seems that JT, Andy Craig, and Michael are athiest Hitlers in the making”

    Hitler wasn’t an atheist.

    = But the way you guys talk remind me of him in his early days. a ‘Hitler’ can come in any form, in any idealogy.

    He was nominally a Catholic but all records indicate that he didn’t really give much attention to the matter of religion in his private life.

    = There was also talk he was a pagan. It may not be true, but many of his top officers worshipped the Germanic God, Woten.

    Thomas Paine was an atheist, though. Along with several Founding Fathers who were non-Christian Deists- in effect, the atheists of their day. Thomas Jefferson published an edited version of the Gospels that removed all references to the supernatural in an attempt to get to the “true meaning” of Christ’s message, which he correctly thought had been heavily edited in the 1800 years since he died. What do you think of that?

    =Thomas Paine didn’t sign the D of I or the US Constitution like the others.
    I do remember he said this:

    “ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
    “ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.”

    - TP, The Existence of God,1810

    BTW, The founding fathers were indeed opposed to a theocratic government and despised religious intolerance, yet they still favored including religious belief and morals in government; they did believe that Christian principles and religious freedom were compatible with each other.

  51. Cody Quirk Says:

    No, it is only the business of the buyer and seller.

    = Does the US Constitution say that?

    Though it’s nice to see it made so clear- the “Constitution” Party still wants tyranny, they just want it localized.

    = Then I guess America was made up of hundreds of dicatorships back in the 19th Century, eh?

  52. Cody Quirk Says:

    Considering that people here are accusing me of being “the next atheist Hitler”, I don’t think they have any room to complain about politeness.

    = hey, you’re the one that came in here starting a fight. You shouldn’t be complaining either.

  53. Cody Quirk Says:

    You believe there’s an invisible man—living in the sky—who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ‘til the end of time!

    But He loves you.

    And we’re the ones who’re mentally deficient?

    = That’s not my faith. I’m LDS, even one that doesn’t believe in that “spaghetti monster” can still go to heaven, just not in the top level (Celestial Kingdom).

    /Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless George Carlin

    = Keep up the bigotry, after all, when I do another article on why conservatives should go with the Constitution Party over the LP, I’m going to include your comments to prove my point;)

  54. Cody Quirk Says:

    Everyone should be able to believe in what they want.
    everyone should respect each other but don’t impose it.

    = Seem you guys want to impose your brand of athiesm here.

    Thi sis not IRAN. This is why the US is the greates country in the world because we don’t mix religion with politics.

    = The Founding fathers still did, why do we get sworn into office with a Bible?

    How would you like it if I told you the truth that you are praying to a dead jew and his name is not Jesus , after all there were no Hispanics in Israel at that time. How would you like me to tell you “Jesus” as really a religious Jew whose last supper was Passover and he had a Yamilka and ate matza in a ROUND table. Jews did not eat in rectangular tables at that point in time. How would you like me to tell you the truth that Jesus did not look like a 60’s hippie and looked very much like I do , a jew.
    How would you like to know he had sex just like you and me. WOW this is only the beginning.

    = I’ll be sure to use your comments in a Pro-CP article here.

  55. Cody Quirk Says:

    First, I’m not an atheist. Second, Bob Barr’s public policy statements ARE news because he’s the Libertarian nominee for president. Lunatic.

    = Some people thought Ed Noonan had a legal point in what he was doing; I had to prove otherwise, and have every right to do so here, even Richard Winger, a Libertarian, liked my article enough to mention it on BAN.

    Idiot.

  56. Cody Quirk Says:

    wow in the spirit of boring us to death and bragging he finished elementary school, Cody Queer continues his vagina monologues…..

    = Yeah, I guess it is boring to a undereducated, bigoted nutjob like you.
    Maybe you should go read something from a Club magazine. After all, if you want to talk about sex and not politics, you shouldn’t be here in the first place.

  57. Cody Quirk Says:

    Richard, why is it that TPW is now attracting bottom feeders from your Party everyday?

  58. GREEN DAD Says:

    someone shut this CODY Quirke up ? He think he own these posts.

    I count 8 in a row . and they are long nonsense posts. The mother fucker is arguing with himself.

  59. Red Phillips Says:

    Andy et al,

    To equate the historic faith of this country, the historic faith of the West, the predominate religion of your fellow countrymen, and a faith without which the civilization which you now enjoy the luxury of would not exist, (I assume you are an American) with some made up flying spaghetti monster proves you are not a serious person. Even if you don’t believe, which is unfortunate, basic decency and rules of civil behavior dictate that you should be deferential to the majority belief. To wear your contempt for the dominant belief on your sleeve, proves you are a perpetual bratty adolescent. As is Harris. As is Dawkins. Which is why they are such unpleasant characters. Grow up.

    Diamond Dave, you are likely right that Jesus (an Angloization) looked like a Jew, wore the traditional Jewish garb of the day, ate at a round table, etc. I seriously doubt that would really come as much of a shock to most serious Christians, nor do I think they would care. It certainly would not shake their faith. However, Jesus did not have sex because He was not married, and if He had sex when He wasn’t married He wouldn’t be sinless. That sinless part is pretty important when it comes to being a sacrifice for our sins, wouldn’t you say?

  60. RRHeustisJr Says:

    I’m LDS, even one that doesn’t believe in that “spaghetti monster” can still go to heaven, just not in the top level (Celestial Kingdom).

    Sounds like a science fiction “B” flick.

    Popcorn, anyone?

  61. Truth Be Told Says:

    I wonder if Pastor Drake, a Baptist, realizes he is being used by an outspoken infidel, Ed Noonan?

  62. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” Rich,” with his above comment regarding racism and George Wallace as a smear to the current AIP ( the real one from Los Angeles ) gives a clear demonstration of his stupidity. In fact the AIP is the foremost party fighting racism in our state due to the fact that all other parties minimally ignore if not support Planned Parenthood; the most racist organization in the history of the nation as documented at blackgenocide.org. Anyone who supports Planned Parenthood automatically endorses the eugenics ( race science ) which is the founding philosophy of Planned Parenthood and its motivation to this day. I am proud to be a member of the only political party in California which is fighting for and defending the black community from the genocidal attacks against it by Planned Parenthod.

  63. Don Grundmann Says:

    Cody : Thank you for your outstanding and very impressive post. Kudos to you for a job most excellently done.

  64. Cody Quirk Says:

    someone shut this CODY Quirke up ? He think he own these posts.

    I count 8 in a row . and they are long nonsense posts. The mother fucker is arguing with himself.

    = I’m only responding to the BS posts here, yours included. If nobody was attacking religion or the AIP, then I have no need to say anything.

    I have more control over the posts then you do. I can edit & delete the comments if I wanted to, but I don’t.

    If you don’t like that, TS.

  65. Don Grundmann Says:

    Andy Craig Says:

    July 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
    You’re the one who’s a member of a party that believes in the “right” of states to ban “offensive sexual practices”.

    You don’t really have room to be calling any one a bigot.

    The American Independent Party opposes the bigotry of the homosexual movement in attempting to impose their pathological condition upon the citizens of California, most especially the children who are their ultimate targets. The AIP stands in defense of both traditional marriage, as opposed to its pathological homosexual counterpart, and of the children of our state and the nation as a whole against the attack upon them by the homosexual community.

  66. Cody Quirk Says:

    Reed,

    Funny how you are willing to respond to my posts, yet when it comes to the bigoted athiests here, you are quiet as a mouse.

    That says a lot on how you defend Christianity.

  67. Cody Quirk Says:

    You’re welcome Don.

  68. Don Grundmann Says:

    well I’m Jewish but I refuse to be sheep like my people in Germany in the 1940s . I will enter every thread that emposes religion upon others. Never again my brother!

    this country has no wars because religion is not imposed upon others, because there is seperation of church and state.

    I will work as hard as I can to stop any Third Party to use religion to control , motivate, and manipulate people.

    There is no such thing as ” separation of church and state ” as all people are religious; even atheists and agnostics. Religion is what motivates all people - without exception. The United States is a nation of Christian foundations. Those who flap their jaws about the lie of ” separation of church and state ” simply want to replace Christianity ( the religious foundation for the abilty of all religions to worship in our nation ) with their own religion. Religion ” controls ” you every day by laws. Exhibit A - Thou shalt not kill. Only one example among countless others of Christianity and its principles protecting both you and all citizens.

  69. Don Grundmann Says:

    ” If a state wants to ban gay marriage and civil unions,,,”

    Cody : As a informational point there is no such thing as ” gay.” There is only homosexual or, more appropriately, ” pervert.” ” GAY ” actually stands for “G”oing “A”fter “Y”outh but the perverts will never admit this.

  70. Red Phillips Says:

    Thanks to Don Grundmann for talking some sense.

  71. Don Grundmann Says:

    The events in Los Angeles last weekend were bogus and void. The nine officer that called the bogus AIP Convention did not take their suggested
    location to the State Central Committee for approval. These 9 officers
    are not the entire central committee. In fact they made up a very small
    cabal of the state central committee, in light of the fact that well over
    45 Delegates accepted to the Sacramento Convention of AIP on July 5,
    2008. Even Don Grunmann one of the nine that signed the
    document calling for a Los Angeles Convention in violation of the By-Laws
    of this party and at least five sections of the California Elecltion Code,
    showed up at the Sacramento AIP convention to give his views on
    on a Alan Keyes ticket.

    The AIP has hired the election law firn of Wewer & Lacy of Laguna Niguel,
    California to deal with those bogus events in Los Angeles Westin Hotel of
    last weekend.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg

    Vice Chairman
    American Independent Party

    Unfortunately Mark is a liar on several counts but these will be exposed when he loses in court. I did go to their fake convention

  72. Don Grundmann Says:

    I am the real Vice-Chairman of the AIP. Unfortunately Mark Seidenberg, the fake Vice-Chairman, is lying on several points but his deception will be exposed in court when he loses. I did attend the fake convention in Sacramento to ” offer my views ” - 1) that it was a convention not of the AIP but of Judases (SP?) and 2) I don’t associate with backstabbers and traitors.

  73. Meh Says:

    Haha, atheists and agnostics are not “religious”...

  74. Andy Craig Says:

    As these comments have demonstrated, the so-called “Constitution” Party clearly doesn’t understand the difference between what they may or may not personally approve of and what it is right to use the force of government to suppress.

    That fundamental distinction is at the core of liberty, and the CP’s ignorance of it (or outright rejection of it, I’m not quite sure which) should be more than enough to cost them the vote of any one who claims to love liberty of the sort the actual Constitution is supposed to protect.

  75. Red Phillips Says:

    “Haha, atheists and agnostics are not “religious”...”

    The ones on here have as much evangelistic zeal as any conservative Christian, and haven’t learned not to be a bunch of rude, ham handed boobs about it.

  76. Red Phillips Says:

    “As these comments have demonstrated, the so-called “Constitution” Party clearly doesn’t understand …”

    That’s right Andy, because the Founding Fathers and drafters of the Constitution were all a bunch of social libertarians, right? That is why these so-called social issue have only come up in the last several decades and weren’t issues for the vast majority of the history of this nation. So I guess the rigid secularist of the last few decades know more about the Constitution than the people who wrote it. Give me a break, and get a clue. You are the one who doesn’t care about or understand the Constitution. You care about your modernist secularism which wasn’t even around in its current obnoxious form 200+ years ago when the Constitution was drafted. You or one of your cohorts even called the Deists the atheist “of their day.” You are a historical revisionist blinded by your modernist view, but please leave the Founders out of it. They deserve better.

  77. Don Grundmann Says:

    As these comments have demonstrated, the so-called “Constitution” Party clearly doesn’t understand the difference between what they may or may not personally approve of and what it is right to use the force of government to suppress.

    That fundamental distinction is at the core of liberty, and the CP’s ignorance of it (or outright rejection of it, I’m not quite sure which) should be more than enough to cost them the vote of any one who claims to love liberty of the sort the actual Constitution is supposed to protect.

    ” Cutting to the chase ” - perverts can do anything they want in the privacy of their home. When they attempt to impose their pathology on our culture, society, and nation they will be challenged, opposed, and stopped. Pervert marriage is a direct threat to the stability of our nation. As has been demonstrated countless times perverts can only impose their pathology upon normal ( not sick ) citizens via courts but never by the processes, such as voting, within our Constitutional Republic. Stopping the advance of homosexual perverts is standing for the liberty of the nation now and in the generations to come; most especially the children who are the real targets of the perverts. Suppression of threats against the citizens of our nation is the job of government and must be performed by citizens when our government refuses to do its job. This is the ” core of liberty.”

  78. Andy Craig Says:

    RP-

    If you’d stop trying to interject your religion into my government, I’d be more than content to not say a word about it to you.

    And there are plenty of rude, ham handed boobs out there trying to convert people to Christianity.

  79. Bill Lussenheide Says:

    California Election Code:

    Section 7610. This committee may remove any member who, during his or her term of membership, affiliates with or registers as a member of
    another party. This committee may also remove any appointed member
    who publicly advocates that the voters should not vote for the
    nominee of the party for any office, or who publicly gives support to
    or avows a preference for a candidate of another party who is
    opposed to a candidate nominated by this party.

    Since Chuck Baldwin is the official candidate for the AIP, and since California was officially affiliated with the CP at the convention, and cast votes there for candidates, where does this leave any false officer of California in advocating another candidate or political party?

    Their removal was the ethical duty of any officer loyal to the party and is sanctioned by above quoted election code.

  80. Red Phillips Says:

    Wait a minute Andy, you were the one who accused the CPers of not understanding a two century old document because they aren’t modernist secularists.

  81. D Kennedy Says:

    Don’t all you Keyes zealots realize that this country was founded by people fleeing the blended religious and governmental demands of England? Protestants and Catholics have been in-fighting for centuries. America was founded by people fleeing organized religion’s control over people via the government.
    Can’t you nut-jobs who are trying to pry a faction of a third party off realize that Keyes is not going anywhere (as usual).
    Keyes used to be a joke. Now it’s worse. He is to the point where he is thoroughly embarrassing himself. And he is dragging people down with him.

  82. Andy Craig Says:

    RP-

    Indeed- because they falsely insist that the document doesn’t establish a secular government, and that the people who wrote it didn’t intend to establish a purely secular government.

  83. timothy west Says:

    wow, this is just like a libertarian thread!

  84. Jonathan Says:

    Zogby: Barr at 6% nationwide
    July 6th, 2008 by Jason Pye
    A new Zogby poll shows Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr at 6% nationwide with healthy numbers among independent voters:

    Bob Barr receives the support of 7% of voters who identify themselves as conservative or very conservative voters. Barr gets 43% of libertarians and 11% of independents.

  85. Sean Scallon Says:

    It’s sad to see this situation come to this but it’s typical of non-major party politics. One faction loses to another and instead of accpeting their loss gratiously, they go out and form a tiny faction of their own. Certainly if Keyes had won the CP nomination, his opponents would have been agitating to have their state affilates deny him their state’s party line for someone else. But I would not have encouraged this and in fact would have opposed it as time wasting and destructive.

    Keyes supporters have to look towards the future instead nursing the grievences of the present. Do you honestly believe that the ideas of Alan Keyes alone are enough to sustain a nationwide non-major party and if so what makes Alan so special? Is he a philospher? Religious leader? Saint? World traveler? What does he say that isn’t said by hundreds if not thousands of conservatives everyday of the week? And you also have to ask yourself do you have differences with the CP platform and candidate Chuckl Baldwin that are significant enough not only keeps you from supporting him, but also keeps you from the CP itself?

    Even you gain control of the California AIP in court what would that gain you? Don’t you think the CP wouldn’t just start a chapter in California? Then what? You live out your existence as the Alan Keyes Party and Keyes finally passes from the scene, then what? What will would have gained? Existence as another petty faction of non-major party politics? Is that what your work is going towards? Are your differences with the CP that significant?

    Like it or not the CP, along with the Greens and the LP, have set themselves apart from the rest of the non-major parties because they have national organization, structure and funding. They have dedicated activists and active candidates. Now you can either accept this fact, or waste your time for the next 10-12 years, it’s up to you. That’s the choice you face.

  86. Don Grundmann Says:

    Indeed- because they falsely insist that the document doesn’t establish a secular government, and that the people who wrote it didn’t intend to establish a purely secular government.

    A purely secualr government can never exist; i.e.; it is impossible to have; simply because all people are religious and hence ANY government will always be controlled by a religion. The question for our nation is whether that religion shall be Christianity, upon which our nation was founded and upon which its prosperity and the freedom of our citizens is based, or its anti-Christian opposite; which will bring ruin and poverty to our citizens, the nation, and the world as a whole.

  87. Don Grundmann Says:

    Even you gain control of the California AIP in court what would that gain you? Don’t you think the CP wouldn’t just start a chapter in California? Then what? You live out your existence as the Alan Keyes Party and Keyes finally passes from the scene, then what? What will would have gained? Existence as another petty faction of non-major party politics? Is that what your work is going towards? Are your differences with the CP that significant?

    Sean : The minimal objective which will satisfy the rump faction attempting to to steal the AIP for Keyes is that Chuck Baldwin is knocked off of the ballot. As long as this occurs the past chairman, Ed Noonan, will be satisfied for the revenge he gains against Chuck Baldwin against whom he has a foaming-at-the-mouth hatred. The past parlimentarian, Mark Robinson, is a GOP mole who, having reached a appropriate position of power within the party, has executed the plan which he had upon his original entry into the party inclusive of the Constitution Party as a whole as the primary target - its destruction and elimination as the true conservative threat to the fake conservatism of the Republican Party.

  88. Bri Says:

    Richard Winger Says:
    July 4th, 2008
    Cody did a lot of hard work, analyzing the parts of the California Election Code that explain the rules of the American Independent Party.

    I think any logical person realizes that Gary Odom did the research and Cody did the attack piece. Anyone who spells ‘definitely’ at least three different ways does not have the education necessary to do this legal research. Mr. Quirk is no paralegal, and never even completed junior college. Perhaps not even his freshman year. He was likely supplied with his information from a ghost-writer. It is my understanding that Mr. Quirk makes his living as a laborer, but fancies himself a skilled amateur political analyst.

    It also smacks of the arguments Gary Odom, at the behest of his employers at the national Constitution Party, has been using ever since Mr. Noonan proclaimed that he was going to disaffiliate the AIPCA from the Constitution Party and give Keyes its ballot line.

    While I do not claim to be an expert of California Election Code, it does appear that both factions have strong claims to control of the AIPCA and its ballot line. Neither side has iron-clad definitive proof that they are the rightful leadership of the AIPCA. Past precedence being the case, Mr. Noonan will likely succeed at his objective of keeping Mr. Baldwin off the California 2008 Presidential ballot and the King group will be awarded ownership after the November elections.

    It appears obvious to those of us without a direct stake in the AIPCA’s ballot line that this will not be sorted out in days or weeks, but rather in months or years. It has already been weeks and there appears to be no resolution in sight. Both sides have strong arguments for control of the AIPCA, and the CA SoS office has more important things to worry about right now than the ownership of a dying minor party.

    Ed Noonan is a fool, but any one that didn’t see this one coming should have their head examined. Ed Noonan has a long history of selective listening/reading, imagined persecution, patting himself on the back for the smallest of achievements, and throwing temper tantrums when he doesn’t get his way. This goes back to at least 2003, if not before. Mr. Noonan is a caricature of Constitution Party leadership in general.

    Dr. Grundmann, your claims of the GOP trying to kill the CP may be true, but the CP crippled itself badly enough in 1999 and 2006 that the GOP is merely performing a coup de grace similar to shooting a rabid dog or a terminally ill beloved pet.

    Besides, if they really wanted to kill the Constiution Party they would have promptly challenged the CPIL’s ballot access petitions as they weren’t even close to gathering the necessary 25,000 legitimate signatures. I don’t have the exact number of signatures gathered in Illinois by the CPIL, but I think they got less than 25% of the necessary signatures. Does anyone have the exact number of signatures the CPIL turned in?

  89. Red Phillips Says:

    It might be best to let this thread die, but I do want to point out to D Kennedy that most of the people on here arguing for the CP are not Keyes zealots and are supporters of Baldwin. He may realize this, but his post could be read as him thinking that many of us are Keyes supporters. Maybe he was speaking to Keyes supporters in general and not addressing people who have already posted on this thread.

  90. Cody Quirk Says:

    I think any logical person realizes that Gary Odom did the research and Cody did the attack piece.

    = LOL! Nope, I had help from no one! Heck if Gary wrote this, I’d give the credit to him.

    Anyone who spells ‘definitely’ at least three different ways does not have the education necessary to do this legal research.

    = Anyone who claims the CP National Convention was going to be in California doesn’t have the education to speak about the Party.

    Mr. Quirk is no paralegal, and never even completed junior college.

    = Miss. Sorenson is no political expert and probably isn’t in college. Can Miss. Sorenson tell me in what election was a political pin the shape of a gold bug worn? Does she know?

    Perhaps not even his freshman year. He was likely supplied with his information from a ghost-writer.

    = Which was my brain! Ooooooooooooooo!

    It is my understanding that Mr. Quirk makes his living as a laborer, but fancies himself a skilled amateur political analyst.

    = It is my understanding that Mrs. Sorenson does cheerleading for a living and yet claims to know the inner workings of the Constitution Party.

    It also smacks of the arguments Gary Odom, at the behest of his employers at the national Constitution Party, has been using ever since Mr. Noonan proclaimed that he was going to disaffiliate the AIPCA from the Constitution Party and give Keyes its ballot line.

    = No, it smacks of personal resentment that has been building up since Ed’s appointment of D. Clark.

    While I do not claim to be an expert of California Election Code, it does appear that both factions have strong claims to control of the AIPCA and its ballot line.

    = Not Ed’s side. For one, the State Convention doesn’t have to be in Sacramento. And two, Mr. Seidenburg lied about the attendence. And Ed thinks that one must be elected as a county chair in order to be on the committee, and he also thinks that the Chairman can solely kick people out of the state committee at will. Nowhere is that in the Elections Code.

    Neither side has iron-clad definitive proof that they are the rightful leadership of the AIPCA.

    = Read the Elections Code, oh, wait, you’re a Cheerleader.

    Past precedence being the case, Mr. Noonan will likely succeed at his objective of keeping Mr. Baldwin off the California 2008 Presidential ballot and the King group will be awarded ownership after the November elections.

    = I know you wish that, but it probably isn’t going to happen.

    It appears obvious to those of us without a direct stake in the AIPCA’s ballot line that this will not be sorted out in days or weeks, but rather in months or years.

    =Years? LOL!

    It has already been weeks and there appears to be no resolution in sight.

    = For one, the California SoS won’t give Ed his recognition on a silver platter.

    Both sides have strong arguments for control of the AIPCA, and the CA SoS office has more important things to worry about right now than the ownership of a dying minor party.

    = However I don’t see a Ed winning in the long run.

    Ed Noonan is a fool, but any one that didn’t see this one coming should have their head examined.

    = I don’t remember you predicting exactely this either.

    Ed Noonan has a long history of selective listening/reading, imagined persecution, patting himself on the back for the smallest of achievements, and throwing temper tantrums when he doesn’t get his way.

    = Such behavior didn’t become apparent until Gilchrist endorsed Art Oliver over him.

    This goes back to at least 2003, if not before. Mr. Noonan is a caricature of Constitution Party leadership in general.

    = He is now.

    Dr. Grundmann, your claims of the GOP trying to kill the CP may be true, but the CP crippled itself badly enough in 1999 and 2006 that the GOP is merely performing a coup de grace similar to shooting a rabid dog or a terminally ill beloved pet.

    = Tampa doesn’t count, those states got replaced and the other two are putting Chuck on their ballot.

    Besides, if they really wanted to kill the Constiution Party they would have promptly challenged the CPIL’s ballot access petitions as they weren’t even close to gathering the necessary 25,000 legitimate signatures.

    = Guess the Almighty had a hand in doing that.

    I don’t have the exact number of signatures gathered in Illinois by the CPIL, but I think they got less than 25% of the necessary signatures. Does anyone have the exact number of signatures the CPIL turned in?

    = Ask somebody with the CPIL. Even if they didn’t get 25%, to get on the ballot in a state like that is quite a breakthrough.

  91. Cody Quirk Says:

    As these comments have demonstrated, the so-called “Constitution” Party clearly doesn’t understand the difference between what they may or may not personally approve of and what it is right to use the force of government to suppress.

    = As this comments have demonstrated, the so-called Libertarians and CP critics do not understand its Platform and its history. They also do not understand how prejudiced they are in their views of religion and even don’t quite understand the Constitution either, especially the 10th Amendment.

    That fundamental distinction is at the core of liberty, and the CP’s ignorance of it (or outright rejection of it, I’m not quite sure which) should be more than enough to cost them the vote of any one who claims to love liberty

    = Of those voters that want to legalize Prostitution, porn, every controlled substance and also approve NAFTA and other ‘Free Trade Agreements’ that destroy the American workforce.
    I also don’t think Liberty lovers would vote for a Party whose members flaunt their anti-christian and anti-religious views here.

    of the sort the actual Constitution is supposed to protect.

    = Like the rights of the states to decide on matters not given to the federal and not prohibited from the states.

  92. Cody Quirk Says:

    If you’d stop trying to interject your religion into my government, I’d be more than content to not say a word about it to you.

    = You’d better take that up with the Founding Fathers. Because they still included God in some parts.

    How do you explain the phrase “In the Year of Our Lord” in the US Constitution?

  93. Bri Says:

    Oh Cody, if only I could make a living as a cheerleader. That would be a dream come true. I am thinking about auditioning as a Vikings cheerleader this fall, though. Those girls are all so talented and beautiful! It would truly be an honor to among their number.

    However, I hope to get a job in advertising or public relations soon. If the real estate market picks up again, I want to sell houses. I think it would be a real thrill to help peoples’ dreams of home owneship come true.

  94. Cody Quirk Says:

    Oh Cody, if only I could make a living as a cheerleader. That would be a dream come true.

    = Good for you, I guess.

    I am thinking about auditioning as a Vikings cheerleader this fall, though. Those girls are all so talented and beautiful! It would truly be an honor to among their number.

    = Ok.

    However, I hope to get a job in advertising or public relations soon. If the real estate market picks up again, I want to sell houses.

    = The AIP State Chair (Jim King) does that. If you wanted to talk to him for advice, his contact info is on the new AIP website, which is going to be in my upcoming post.

    I think it would be a real thrill to help peoples’ dreams of home owneship come true.

    = We’re going through dark times in the housing market currently. That’s why we’re renting & saving up money.

  95. Big Al Says:

    If Ed Noonan is successful in his bid to hijack the American Independent Party, then those of us who support the Constitution Party should form a new Constitution Party in California and allow Mr. Noonan to fade into the sunset. This will not work for this year’s election but it is a good long term solution to the problem that Mr. Noonan has caused.

  96. canadaseeday Says:

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