Preliminary NY Libertarian Convention Straw Poll Results

28 Wayne Allyn Root
20 Bob Barr
15 Mary Ruwart
10 Mike Gravel
8 Christine Smith
7? Steve Kubby
7 Mike Jingozian
1 Ron Paul
0 Daniel Imperato

Here’s Root’s press release on the topic:

Libertarian Presidential frontrunner Wayne Allyn Root won yet another Presidential Preference Poll after another Libertarian Party State Convention- this time in New York State, one of the biggest prizes of the pre-nomination process. Root has now won the 2 biggest state Presidential polls- New York and California, as well as the largest Libertarian State Convention of the Year- the Heartland Conference Presidential Preference Poll (featuring 5 Midwest states).

In New York, Root beat out a field of Presidential candidates for the Libertarian Party- including former United States Senator Mike Gravel and former Congressman Bob Barr. Root finished with 28 first place votes, followed by Bob Barr in second with 20 votes, Mary Ruwart in third with 15 votes, and Senator Gravel in 4th with 10 votes. All the other Presidential candidates scored in the single digits.

Root has now won Presidential Preference Polls in New York, California, Colorado, Michigan and the 5 Midwest states of the Heartland Conference. California is the most populous Libertarian state, with the largest delegation to the national convention in Denver in May 2008.

The New York Presidential Preference Poll immediately followed detailed presentations and Q&A that gave Libertarian Party delegates and leaders an up-close & personal look at the major candidates seeking the Party’s nomination for President.

Mr. Root said, “I’m grateful to the Libertarian leaders, voters and delegates from all over New York state who watched our presentations and chose me as their favorite for the Libertarian Presidential nomination. New York will always have a special place in my heart. I was born in Mt Vernon, NY; raised in New York; educated at Columbia University; and started my political career in New York at the age of 3 in 1964- handing out political literature for Barry Goldwater in my father’s arms. I may live in Las Vegas, Nevada, but I will always be a New Yorker.”

Root continued, “It was obvious from the comments of the many well-wishers after the Presidential Poll, that New Yorkers understand that I make the best messenger to represent this party’s powerful message on a grand national stage. They appreciated that once again, I was able to build a successful media tour around my New York Convention appearance- with multiple appearances on Fox Business Network and a TIME magazine interview. I am excited to continue to bring the Libertarian message to millions of Americans who have never heard or experienced it before.”

Root added, “Polls consistently show that American voters are anxiously looking for a third party alternative for the White House. I think I’m proving with each Libertarian Presidential Poll victory that I am the candidate that will bring smaller government, lower spending, reduced entitlements, dramatically lower taxes, and more personal freedom to the American people. I think the time is past due for a President who is a small businessman, home-school father and citizen politician- and who has never collected a government paycheck. I don’t live off the taxpayers- I am a taxpayer! When it comes to taxes, I’ll always remember that it’s your money in the first place.”

52 Responses to “Preliminary NY Libertarian Convention Straw Poll Results”

  1. ABW Says:

    They actually let us vote for more than one person!! How cool is that!!

  2. Fred C. Says:

    Question mark?

  3. Steve LaBianca Says:

    My understanding is that people at the NY convention could vote for up to 5 people. Additionally, it is estimated (by people who attended the convention) that half the people attending had already left before the the poll was taken.

    Somehow, and maybe I am being too strict that a full house of people voting for their favorite candidate only, with the possibility of having a “2nd” and “3rd” choice candidate would be a far better indicator of support.

    In short, W.A.R.’s vote total, or anybody’s for that matter is indicative of very little.

  4. darolew Says:

    “My understanding is that people at the NY convention could vote for up to 5 people.”

    Heh, and Imperato still gets zero votes. I would say that is one vote total that is quiet indicative.

  5. Jeff Wartman Says:

    In short, W.A.R.’s vote total, or anybody’s for that matter is indicative of very little.

    Not when put into context. These totals approximately reflect most of the other LP state straw polls that have taken place.

  6. dodsworth Says:

    I am no fan of Barr but why would anyone prefer Root to him?

  7. Stefan Says:

    Imperato also got 1 vote from FL at the CP convention. He probably wasted his money on the LP,as he will stay with the CP, I think.
    Jeff, mostly correct, Ruwart did win NC comprehensively. The question if which candidate(s) are the candidates that end last going to vote for when their choices fall out. I bet you it is not going to be for WAR. Kubby will support Ruwart etc. If it is between Root and Barr, the two best performances in this poll, I bet you Christiane Smith, Ruwart and the others will vote for Barr over Root. Jingozian may support Gravel or visa versa. Straw polls show enthusiam, not really polling figures.

  8. G.E. Says:

    dodsworth - Because Root supports constitutional taxation in the Originalist, decentralist sense, and Barr supports nationalized welfare FraudTax.

  9. Jeff Wartman Says:

    Stefan,

    The way the LP nominates makes most of these straw polls irrelevant.

    For example, if this straw polls were the numbers for the first round of balloting, we’d be going to another ballot. This is why many will tell you it’s better to be everyone’s second choice than win the first ballot.

    Aaron Russo found that out the hard way.

  10. Jeff Wartman Says:

    Stefan—
    Offtopic, but I met your nemesis Eric Dondero in person earlier this month when I was in Houston on business. I don’t agree with most of his politics, but he’s a nice guy overall.

  11. Thomas L. Knapp Says:

    With the limit of five, this poll looks like a somewhat limited version of “approval voting.”

    Congratulations to Root.

    LPHQ’s rush-job “Ruwart Smear Magnifier” release obviously had some of the intended effect, but if this straw poll is the measure of it, she has plenty of time to recover and stuff it right back in their faces.

  12. Peter Orvetti Says:

    Did Dr. Ruwart comment on the recent controversy?

  13. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Here is Mary Ruwart’s interview yesterday 4/25 with the North Virginia Patriots radio. I’ve heard W.A.R.’s interview, and now Mary Ruwart’s. It really is unbelievable how the interviews, from a Libertarian perspective, favor Mary Ruwart by leaps and bounds over W.A.R. It isn’t even close! Mary is steeped in knowledge and understanding of libertarianism, W.A.R. doesn’t even know the difference between a gold standard and a fiat money standard! That is just one of a huge # of misunderstandings that W.A.R has about the foundations of liberty. W.A.R. is THE MOST UN-qualified candidate that has ever sought the LP presidential nomination.

    Here is the interview - it starts about 28 minutes into the show.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/nvpats/blog/2008/04/25/North-Virginia-Patriots

  14. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. dodsworth Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    I am no fan of Barr but why would anyone prefer Root to him?

    1. G.E. Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    dodsworth - Because Root supports constitutional taxation in the Originalist, decentralist sense, and Barr supports nationalized welfare FraudTax.

    dodsworth, supporting W.A.R. over Barr is beyond me. Neither is worthy of the LP nomination, but at least Barr is intent on building the LP, W.A.R. is intent on only building W.A.R. Thus, all scruples go out the window, he’ll say whatever he needs to be say for “votes”, and he will only work to improve “image” because he is “good TV”.

    G.E., W.A.R.’s plan for decentralizing taxes never challenges the co-existence of a proportional tax on states, with all the indirect excises, imposts and duties already in place. Thus, his tax plan is no better than what is in place now, because it never challenges the spending largesse that the federal government has.

    Listen to this radio interview with Mary Ruwart, and she places the problem fiscally, with the federal government as a SPENDING problem! The tax problem follows this.

    THIS is why Mary Ruwart, the only legitimate candidate with a shot at the LP nomination is the only choice . . . only she UNDERSTANDS what libertarianism is and only she can represent what libertarianism is, for the LP. . . W.A.R., Gravel and Barr are pretenders.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/nvpats/blog/2008/04/25/North-Virginia-Patriots

  15. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. Peter Orvetti Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Did Dr. Ruwart comment on the recent controversy?

    She comments on this radio show (see post above), and at this point I have not heard yet what her comments in Indiana were today. A candidate forum is probably starting shortly in Indiana as well.

    I short order, Dr. Ruwart will put this ridiculous non-issue “controversy” to bed.

  16. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. Jeff Wartman Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    In short, W.A.R.’s vote total, or anybody’s for that matter is indicative of very little.

    Not when put into context. These totals approximately reflect most of the other LP state straw polls that have taken place.

    Not true AT ALL Wartman. Mary Ruwart won Ohio and North Carolina handily, and Louisiana was a virtual tie between W.A.R. and Ruwart.

  17. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Thomas L. Knapp Says:
    April 26th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    With the limit of five, this poll looks like a somewhat limited version of “approval voting.”

    Thomas, I am not sure what an “approval rating” vote is, but it certainly wasn’t a preference poll. NY delegates (those who actually stayed for the poll) did not choose first, second, third, etc. For all we know, W.A.R. could be choice #5 on EVERY one of the ballots cast. This is why this “straw poll” indicate very little, if ANYTHING.

  18. Steve LaBianca Says:

    This release is just one more indication of the botched administration of LP Executive director Shane Cory in his duties:

    http://www.lp.org/media/article_578.shtml

    Mueller was asked in the FBI overview committee proceedings, if there were “adequate” laws in place to counter internet child pornography.

    How this misses the whole point. How Shane Cory and his staff miss the whole point of the futility of coercive government to actually have a positive effect on a terrible problem of exploitation of children.

    It is beyond me, how the LP’s national staff has such faith in government. Even if you follow a strict constitutional government there is no way that the LP should be issuing releases that say:

    “Washington, D.C. - The Libertarian Party is calling for increased coordination and communication between federal and state law enforcement agencies in order to help to apprehend and convict child predators and those who engage in child pornography. ”

    What role does the federal gov’t have, even constitutionally to get involved in this? The Shane Cory national office staff have lost their way.

    Maybe Lew Rockwell is right after all. The LP has lost its way as a vanguard, principles “libertarian” party, and become and apologist for federal involvement in every aspect of life, constitutional or not.

  19. Jeff Wartman Says:

    Not true AT ALL Wartman. Mary Ruwart won Ohio and North Carolina handily, and Louisiana was a virtual tie between W.A.R. and Ruwart.

    It should be obvious to any educated person that the results all follow a consistent pattern; i.e. chart the results and you will get a general pattern. That pattern shows tiers as such:

    Top tier:
    Barr
    Root

    Top-and-a-half-tier:
    Ruwart
    Gravel

    Second tier:
    Phillies
    Jingozian
    Kubby
    and Smith barely hanging on

    The rest are not serious candidates.

    This should NOT be taken to assume this is a list as who would be the best, nearly what’s happening with support around the country, as I support Phillies, and NOT Root at this moment.

    You may not like Root, but it is UNQUESTIONABLE that he has a LOT of support around the country. The Chicago LP is fawning over the guy. Ruwart has the record, but was virtually unknown to younger members of the party before she threw her hat in the race. She has a lot of support, but this straw poll shows, in a general way, what the rest of the country has been saying.

    But because someone is right on policy doesn’t mean they are a top tier candidate.

    As has been said, this does NOT mean any of these candidates will get the nomination. As the ballots go forward, whoever is the coveted second choice will be in the best position to win the nomination. At this point, it could be ANY of the above candidates.

  20. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Re W.A.R., if it is “UNQUESTIONABLE that he has a LOT of support around the country.”, where is the LOTS of fundraising? W.A.R’s supposed LOTS of support is a mirage.

  21. Carl Says:

    Approval voting is the simplest form of range voting (see www.rangevoting.org). If third parties are to have a real chance in this country, we need to push for range voting. This issue is FAR more important than ballot access. It’s far more important than who gets the LP nod for president for that matter.

    Wayne Root is polling high because many LP members see the presidential candidate as a means of getting noticed by the press. Root does have experience in getting publicity.

    Barr also have such publicity and many other good qualities as well. However, he also has a record of being a drug warrior, etc.

    As for the LP having “lost it’s way:” maybe it is losing Rothbard’s way. But I’m not betting on it.

    Put me down for Christine Smith. Mary Ruwart is too nice to be a proper a priori anarchist. It sends the wrong message.

  22. Steve LaBianca Says:

    LP statement of principles (I’m quoting from memory) “Governments where they exist, should not violate individual rights”. Obviously, “a priori “anarchism as Milsted, says is a legitimate, and well expressed form of libertarianism.

    As far as Milsted questioning the LP losing it’s way statement I made, since when is it legitimate for the federal government, constitutionally even, to get involved in crimes other than treason, piracy, and counterfeiting? Now, the LP upholds extra-constitutional roles for the federal government? YES CARL, AND ALL OTHERS WHO CARE TO LISTEN, THE LP HAS LOST ITS WAY WITH SHANE CORY AT NATIONAL. It ain’t just about Rothbard, Carl, so get your head screwed back on straight.

  23. disinter Says:

    Go Root!

  24. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Carl Says:
    April 26th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    Approval voting is the simplest form of range voting (see www.rangevoting.org). If third parties are to have a real chance in this country, we need to push for range voting.

    Sounds like pure tactics without substance to me Carl. This is likely to be a tactic as libertarian as Redpath’s proportional representation government, which you hate so much Carl (Yes, I remember your rising in opposition to the motion during platform debate in Indianapolis, very well)

  25. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Go where . . . to H*ll maybe.

  26. Jeff Wartman Says:

    Re W.A.R., if it is “UNQUESTIONABLE that he has a LOT of support around the country.”, where is the LOTS of fundraising? W.A.R’s supposed LOTS of support is a mirage.

    I really hope this is a joke. NONE of the LP candidates have been able to raise money except Barr. Kubby had to BEG for gas money to get to Oregon.

    Are you really serious?

  27. Stefan Says:

    Off topic: Jeff, yes, I can believe Eric is a nice guy, we are in email conversation at times and I posted a lot on his blog. He invited me to stay at his house as a guest: very kind indeed, but it will be a veryyy long flight for me. You did not meet his wife? I can be friendly with many that I do not agree with politically. I do enjoy it to “overstate” a few things, to see his reaction.

  28. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. Jeff Wartman Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    “I hate the Strauss references.

    . . . He (Strauss) supported intervention, . . .” I guess this is why you hate the “Strauss references”. the LP is about Non-intervention, not only in foreign policy, but in governing, period.

    No wonder you “hate the Strauss references”. Maybe W.A.R. can try to run away from THAT as well, if called to the mat on it.

  29. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Wartman, W.A.R. has been in the race for what 15 months, and you want to compare Mr. “good TV” with the other candidates? If W.A.R. has raised more than $500.00 per month from others in 15 months, I’d be VERY surprised.

    No this isn’t a joke, and your comment on it is a farce, not even up to the level of a joke.

  30. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Actually, I think W.A.R.’s average is about $1,500 to maybe $2,000 a month, my apology. Still, for a supposed celebrity who has “so much TV coverage”, it is an extremely pitiful fundraising result.

  31. Teddy Fleck Says:

    Congrates to the CP they now have Imperato. He voted for himself in K.C. thats why he got 1 vote.

  32. disinter Says:

    Go Ruwart!

  33. Jeff Wartman Says:

    LaBianca,

    I never said that Root was a “TV Celebrity”. His fundraising reflects what other candidates (other than Barr) have been able to raise. That’s a fact.

  34. Jeff Wartman Says:

    I should also point out again, because you seem to have missed it:

    I do not even support Root right now. I’d support him if he got the nomination, but my first round vote would not go to WAR.

  35. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. disinter Says:
      April 26th, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    Go Ruwart!

    Funny.

  36. Carl Says:

    Proportional representation is also a tactic—but it is a bad tactic. Range voting works better. It allows people to consider different directions while still keeping the outliers out of the legislatures.

    As for LP losing it’s way vs. Rothbard’s way, note how many of the LP founders are still in the party. Crane is gone. So is Hospers. The Rothbard faction took over with leftover small government types still clinging on and trying to do politics. I tried to force the issue and failed. As far as I’m concerned, the Rothbardians can have the LP. I’m out—laughing. I say restore the children’s rights plank and run ads to the effect. Defend child prostitution and drive the rest of the sane small government types out.

    The range voting plug is for third party partisans in general—not just Libertarians.

  37. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Carl Says:
    April 26th, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    ” . . . restore the children’s rights plank and run ads to the effect. Defend child prostitution and drive the rest of the sane small government types out.”

    Amen to sentence #1, and stop the ridiculous connotation inherent in #2 Carl. You’re a very smart guy who refuses to open his eyes, or just blatantly makes a logical blunder. I will give you the benefit of the doubt as just ignorance. But stop drawing conclusion which have no logical or rational basis. It badly tarnishes an otherwise brilliant mind.

  38. Independent populist Says:

    Why isn’t Phillies included in the NY straw poll?

  39. Eric Dondero Says:

    One of the commenters said, “some Libertarians are just supporting Root cause he can get major media.”

    Ummm, duhh! Isn’t that obvious. That is the absolute most important criteria for a Libertarian nominee, much, much, much more important than where they stand on the issues. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s the only criteria. But it’s damned close.

    LP delegates should be taking daily statistics as to how the candidates stand up on the major media scale, and make their decisions on who to support based 90% on that criteria. But my informal count, looks like Barr and Root are tied for First with Gravel in second, and all the others not even in the ballpark.

    Root - Fox, CNBC, ESPN, Fox Business, ect…

    Barr - CNN, Fox, Politico.com, Time mag. ect…

    Gravel - CNN

    (I know I’ve missed some?)

    Ruwart - Zero

    Kubby - Zilch

    Phillies - Nada

    Jingozian - Niente

  40. Eric Dondero Says:

    Personal to Stefan, and Jeff:

    “Nice guy”?? Moi! That’s not what all my ex-girlfriends say, particularly the Mexican ladies scattered throughout the Republic:

    More like “pinche burro gringo mentiroso, vete de mi casa.”

  41. Bill Wood Says:

    Steve LaBianca, here are the FEC totals for Wayne Allyn Root, this is only money from individuals not counting money loaned to the campaign by candidate.

    Dec’07 =5,600.00
    Jan.’08=1,200.00
    Feb.’08=8,700.00
    Mar.’08=9,550.00

    total=25,050.00

  42. Carl Says:

    Oops. My bad. I was thinking of the line in the old population plank which read:

    “Therefore, we call for the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services, or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth control, or related medical or biological technologies.”

    Prostitution is a service regarding human sexuality. This plank thus implied support for legal child prostitution, especially with the gestalt of the overall platform.

    Go Restore 04!

  43. paulie Says:

    It should be obvious to any educated person that the results all follow a consistent pattern; i.e. chart the results and you will get a general pattern. That pattern shows tiers as such:

    Top tier:
    Barr
    Root

    Top-and-a-half-tier:
    Ruwart
    Gravel

    Second tier:
    Phillies
    Jingozian
    Kubby
    and Smith barely hanging on

    The rest are not serious candidates.

    Much of Barr/Root support overlaps. In subsequent ballots, most (not all) Phillies, Smith, Kubby and Ruwart supporters will end up endorsing whichever of those is left standing, probably Ruwart or perhaps Kubby.

    Thus, it will end up being one of them vs. either Barr or Root, probably Barr.

    Barr will probably win.

    Gravel and Jingozian don’t seem to have the level of internal support you see. Gravel, especially - he could probably have VP if he wants it, but not the top spot.

  44. paulie Says:

    Why isn’t Phillies included in the NY straw poll?

    He did not show up or send a representative.

  45. Feudal Lord Says:

    More like “pinche burro gringo mentiroso, vete de mi casa.”

    Translation; “you gave me the crabs you sorry gringo”

  46. Steve LaBianca Says:

    Bill Wood, if you’re correct, I stand corrected. This averages out to $6,262.50 per month over the last 4 months. However, I still would like to know what his average is over the 15 months (or so) since he announced.

    I could look it up myself, I suppose.

  47. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. Carl Says:
      April 27th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    “Therefore, we call for the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services, or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth control, or related medical or biological technologies.”

    Go Restore 04!

    Nice try Carl. Try to make it sound like children are completely out on their own, without any parental or adult supervision, without parents or other adults who love and care for the well being of a child or specific children, and that such children are thus forced to make life decisions in a vacuum.

    No, you’re right Carl, especially in the absence of parents or adults who care for and love them . . . the state is a great surrogate parent. Just look at how great the foster parent and adoption programs work. Go STATISM!

  48. Steve LaBianca Says:

    I have come to the opinion, that those who post on this site and others, are willing to drop all trust in people, and throw their trust into the state, every time a bad thing happens.

    Every shooting . . . MY GOD WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS! Every corporate scandal . . . MY GOD WE NEED MORE LAWS CONTROLLING CORPORATE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS (yeah the great Sarbanes-Oxley act is working wonders), Every poor school testing results . . . MY GOD WE NEED MORE FEDERAL FUNDING FOR “EDUCATION”, and on and on.

  49. Steve LaBianca Says:

    I’m not talking about you paulie, or Thomas Knapp, or Alex Peak, or Less Antman, or disinter (generally) or a few others (G.E. maybe).

  50. jack booted thug Says:
    1. Steve LaBianca Says:
      April 27th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    I’m not talking about you paulie, or Thomas Knapp, or Alex Peak, or Less Antman, or disinter (generally) or a few others (G.E. maybe).

    hey, the entire kiddie porn gang all together.

  51. paulie Says:

    JBT

    You have evidence of this accusation? Otherwise, it’s libel and slander.

    Do you advocate legalizing any drugs? Are you personally involved in an illegal drug distribution network?

    Do you believe any weapons laws should be removed? Are you an arms smuggling gang member?

    Do you believe some taxes are wrong and should be repealed? Are you involved in propagating a tax evasion scheme?

    Do you understand the difference between these two sets of concepts?

    Incidentally, neither you or I are anonymous here, and unless you are posting from a public computer with no sign-in, there are ways of finding who is on here accusing other people of being members of a child porn ring.

    Luckily for you, I’m not big on using regime korts. But I would not necessarily make the same presumption about everyone else you named.

    Just because we want regime korts replaced with a competitive system one day does not mean none of us would use them while they maintain an artificial monopoly by force.

  52. Steve LaBianca Says:
    1. jack booted thug Says:
      April 28th, 2008 at 4:02 am

    1. Steve LaBianca Says:
    April 27th, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    hey, the entire kiddie porn gang all together.

    Yeah, come visit my “kiddie porn site” . . . you know the one, you’re a 12 month subscriber!

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