The Ron Paul Factor at the LNC Meeting

In a move most unusual for this body, the Libertarian National Committee just adopted a resolution encouraging Ron Paul to seek the Libertarian Party presidential nomination. The LNC is meeting in Charleston, SC this weekend.

The resolution recognized Paul’s standing and history with the Libertarian Party. It also recognized a renewed passion that Paul has ignited across America.

From the resolution:

In the event that Republican primary voters select a candidate other than Congressman Paul in February of 2008, the Libertarian National Committee invites Congressman Ron Paul to seek the presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party to be decided in Denver, Colorado during the Memorial Day weekend of 2008.

The motion was raised by former Congressman Bob Barr and approved unanimously by the board.

In a related motion, the Libertarian Party voted to authorize the use of their Ballot Base database application in support of the Ron Paul campaign in New Hampshire. This motion passed unanimously, as well. The vote also allows Libertarian Party presidential candidates to utilize Ballot Base in states which have a Libertarian Party primary.

125 Responses to “The Ron Paul Factor at the LNC Meeting”

  1. Chris Says:

    I’m a big Ron Paul supporter; however, authorizing the use of LP resources for the benefit of another party’s candidate just seems very, very wrong. Especially considering the LPs own candidates for the nomination cannot use the same resource.

    Cue Tom and Jake Porter to rail against this move. They will be right.

  2. Rock Howard Says:

    Unanimous votes! Wow! Usually the only unanimous vote at an LNC meeting is the vote to adjourn!

    I am so glad and proud that the national leaders of the Libertarian Party get it! The goal is liberty and the time is now!

  3. Thomas M. Sipos Says:

    This decision only reflects the feelings of rank & file party members and officiers.

    I’m constantly around Libertarian rank & file, and their excitment is over Ron Paul. They always talk of Ron Paul, and going to Ron Paul Meet-Ups. Just last Friday I had dinner with some party members, and one was wearing a Ron Paul cap. I recetnly saw another wearing a Ron Paul t-shirt.

    The LP hardcore—dues-paying membes and officers—are ecstatic over Paul. I’m ecstatic over Paul, and vastly prefer him to any of our announced candidates.

    My “pulse on the party” indicates that if Paul showed up in Denver and announced his desire to be the LP’s nominee, the delegation whoul whoop and cheer and elect Paul on the first ballot.

  4. barry b. Says:

    What the hell seems so wrong about it??? Third parties don’t have a chance in this country. The MSM wheels out puppet A or puppet B. It’s the media and political laws in this so called democracy that’s wrong. I commend the LP for trying to harness the energy in the RP revolution. That’s a smart thing to do - now the outcome it will have in 08 I’m not sure about. However, without a doubt this would be the most publicity the LP party has EVER gotten - not to mention the most votes pulled by a third party. It’s worth a shot - as divided as the LP party is most of the time - I’ve been thinking that they should capatilize on this opportunity.

  5. Robert Reed Says:

    Must be nice to spend our $$$ not in accordance with the by-laws but by the whim of the LNC, who BY -LAW cannot support a specific canidate.

    I MUST remind people (who I assume can read) Ron Paul IS NOT a Libertarian. To even hint to him as a “possible canidate” is NUTS!
    Bob Barr form the time he entered the “LP” has YET to respond to e-mails form “Libertarians” and to see how WE “Libertarians” stand with him, all you have to do is go to his web-site. You will notice the word Bob Barr and Libertarian in the same sentence is LACKING!
    It is amazing a NEW Libertarian can get a vote to violate our own by-laws.
    If you want to support Ron Paul, do so. Register as a “R” VOTE Republican, BUT do NOT profess to be “Member of the Libertarian” Party!!
    R.L.Reed
    Arkansas

  6. NH Says:

    Wow you mean Phillies is not good enough? LOL

  7. Terry Says:

    The Libertarian Party has a unique opportunity to grow their base immensly and I wish they would take advantage of it by throwing their weight behind Ron Paul as he runs for the Republican nominaton. It’s a win/win situation. I am deeply involved in the RP movement and it is clear to me that the opportunity exists for the Libertarian Party to harness the power of what has become the largest, most inspired, and innovative grassroot supporters in history. In spite of the attempts to minimize Ron Paul’s exposure by leaving him off of the polls so his numbers appear far less than his actual support, the smears by the media, the short changing of RP’s debate time, and numerous other “dirty tricks”, his supporter’s have kept him very visible through other means to the point that he is the one every other candidate is concerned with. The RP Revolution isn’t being broadcast but they sure know it’s happening.

    The Libertarian Party has the opportunity to harness these grassroot supporters right now by joining our movement. By virtue of our ideology (and in most cases new found ideology because many of us didn’t even know what the Libertarian ideology was until RP came along) by joining us now, we can provide the same energy by promoting the Libertarian candidates offered up by their party. We would be absolutely unbeatable in local races particulary because we are everywhere and numerous. We have no allegiances with the Republican Party as is. We are fighting against the morphed Republican values of pre-emptive war and nation building and unabashed spending, etc.. Many have swallowed their pride and registered Republican because we feel the end justifies the means. We are Independants, we are past Democratics, we are past Republicans, we are Libertarians, we are the people who have never cared about politics before but now see the imminent danger our country faces and are motivated to do something about it. We have found our Libertarianism at a time when the only man worthy of running this country happens to be running as a Republican and we care not how he appears on the ballot.

    My message to the Libertarian Party is:

    Don’t wait for us to join the Libertarian Party, we are too focused on getting him nominated for President of the United States no matter what ticket he is on. Don’t wait to harness the power of his grassroot supporters. You don’t need to. You can do it now! Join us and the fruits of your labor will be given back 3-fold when the same people behind RP will be behind a Libertarian candidate with the same values as RP. This is about America right now….not party allegiances. When it’s all said and done, the Libertarian Party will finally become a genuine competing party with the force of many motivated people behind it. Trust the RP movement now and join us. I can guarantee you can trust those of us behind RP to promote a Libertarian candidate wth the same values as RP in the future.

    I’m not trying to “cut a deal” because the grassroot supporters are automatically going to do this regardless. What I am trying to say is, we want your party to be part of it right now and further strengthen what has become a very strong allegiance already.

    Don’t forget December 16th TeaParty07 money bomb.

  8. NH Says:

    You people are more concerned about your damned party than actually supporting someone who has a chance to win anything…what a shame…and the reason the L party is made up of useless purists who will never amount to anything.

  9. Fillie Says:

    LIbertarians need to reintegrate with the republican party to offset the hegemony of the Christian right.

  10. Tom Blanton Says:

    Strange things happen during strange times and these are the strangest of times. I neither applaud or condemn the LNC, but merely observe in amazement.

    In recent months I have observed Ron Paul related fractures within most organized political parties. Partisans of all stripes see Dr. Paul as dangerous to their causes. From the hysterical rants of right-wingers that Paul is a leftist to the hyperbole from the left that Paul is a neo-nazi extremist, it is clear that Dr. Paul is causing an ideological shake-up.

    Within the LP there are cries that Paul is no libertarian while at the same time the LP’s Liberty Decides ‘08 lists candidates that are far less libertarian seeking the LP nomination. Wayne Root recently said, “I am Ron Paul.” Crazy talk.

    Something is going on here and I can only speculate that America is experiencing a political meltdown in reaction to our crumbling empire.

    It makes me think of “Ballad of a Thin Man” by Bob Dylan:

    Ah you’ve been with the professors and they’ve all liked your looks,
    With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks,
    You’ve been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s books,
    You’re very well read, it’s well known,
    But something is happening here and you don’t know what it is,
    do you, Mr. Jones?

    Thumbs up to Ron Paul. It’s high time somebody stirred up the rotting pile of shit we call the American political system (and I include the LP). If nothing else, Ron Paul is causing some people to think.

  11. disinter Says:

    In other words, they hope he loses. They also hope that libertarian ideals have no chance in hell of ever becoming mainstream again.

    What they need to be doing is voting to ENDORSE Ron Paul.

  12. barry b. Says:

    disinter that’s a good point - but the Libertarian Party has been negative from the go on Paul. I remember back in the early summer of this year in the LP newsletter. Someone was railing about Michael Badnarik supporting Ron Paul - that’s how the LP is - trying to keep the power within party lines. It’s tough for a third party to cross lines and still maintain credibility with THEIR base. I think by asking Paul to cross over to them (everyone thinks he’s a libertarian anyway) is the correct move.

  13. [email protected] Says:

    Quoth NH:

    “You people are more concerned about your damned party than actually supporting someone who has a chance to win anything”

    Er, no. That’s not it at all.

    I’ll just let Ron Paul speak for me:

    “The rule of law separates civilized societies from despotic societies. Unlike Iraq, the United States is a nation of laws, not men. We are blessed to live under the Constitution, rather than under a King or dictator. Yet if we blatantly violate the Constitution by pursuing an undeclared war, we violate the rule of law.”

    Just like the larger polities in which they function, organizations also have a version of “the rule of law.” Those organizations have bylaws and rules, and the governing officials of those organizations have a fiduciary duty and an obligation of trust to adhere to those bylaws and rules.

    Neither the Libertarian Party’s bylaws nor its essential structure allow for the Libertarian National Committee to say “hey, let’s use the money given to us by the members of the LP to support a candidate of another party.” For them to do so is to defraud every Libertarian who has financially supported the party, to violate their fiduciary duty to act in the interest of the Libertarian Party rather than the interest of the Republican Party, and to shirk the obligation of trust that they voluntarily undertook when they sought election to the LNC on the premise that in office they would be working for the LP, not for the GOP.

    It’s evil, it’s dishonest and it’s disgusting.

    That’s the crux of the matter with respect to turning over an LP resource like BallotBase for use by Ron Paul in a state where the LP will presumably be running a presidential candidate. That resource costs money (it has previously cost money, and Gordon reports that another $7,200 in spending was authorized for it at this meeting). That money was contributed by LP members in the expectation that it would be used for LP purposes, not GOP purposes.

    As far as the LNC’s invitation to Paul, it’s not QUITE as bad. It’s still an evil and disgusting abuse of power, but at least it doesn’t constitute the de facto theft of LP financial resources.

    How much money have the LP’s presidential candidates themselves raised for or contributed to the LP, only to have the LNC vote this weekend to USE IT AGAINST THEM? I take some small comfort from the fact that my own preferred candidate does in fact support Paul—he probably won’t be that upset over having paid his dues las month only to learn that he was in fact contributing to Ron Paul 2008, not the Libertarian Party, by doing so.

  14. Sam Marsh Says:

    I understand that LP bylaws prevent the LNC from endorsing Ron Paul, who is still a member of the LP, but running as a Republican. The LP can, of course, change those bylaws at their convention this year. I hope they do. All the LP candidates for president put together don’t have one tenth of Ron Paul’s support nationally, that’s a fact. That’s not to say that these are bad candidates by any means, but can’t we argue about idealogical purity and party affiliation AFTER we stop the slide into totalitarianism? My loyalty is to Liberty, not necessarily just the LP. I’ll happily vote for LP candidates for Congress, but Dr. Paul is the only hope at the top of the ticket. Please, folks… concentrate on Congress. It is in your best interest. You will have the full support of the rEVOLution. I guarantee you Ron Paul will have no issues with endorsing LP candidates. Certainly you can return the favor.

  15. Jeff Wartman Says:

    At this point, the actions of the LNC are so damaging to the party you have to wonder whether its incompetence on the LNC or they are actually trying to destroy the party.

  16. Jay Matthews Says:

    Hey Dondero, where is the LNC resolution to encourage Rudy to seek the LP nomination?

  17. Chris Says:

    If Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination, then I would completely support a change in the bylaws to allow endorsement, and I would wager that a large majority of delegates would as well. If Ron Paul dropped out of the Republican race and declared his intention to run for the LP nomination, then I would be behind him 100%. In fact, I am 100% behind Paul right now. I have been supporting him financially for months.

    However, Tom Knapp is completely right about the LNC essentially contributing LP money to Ron Paul’s campaign. The LNC would be wrong to hand Phillies or Kubby one dime of LP money or provide LP funded resources for their campaigns. It is even more wrong and a more blatant violation of institutional by-laws to do so for Paul.

  18. Chris Bennett Says:

    Bad move by the LNC, bad bad move!

  19. thefreeman Says:

    After the LP’s lack of support for Badnarak, I left them and declared myself an independent libertarian. I’m happy to see this support for one of our own and I look forward to the LP Convention endorsing Dr. Paul. We’ve been waiting for this level of support for 40 years.

  20. BallotBaser Says:

    Did they vote to let the Ron Paul NH campaign purchase the use of BallotBase, or are they offering it as an in-kind contribution?

  21. Eric Dondero Says:

    I heartily endorse the LNC’s move. As a constituent of Ron Paul’s in Texas Congressional District 14, if Ron Paul does indeed run for President on the Libertarian ticket, than that means he’ll have to give up his Congressional seat. and we can get a real Republican to take his place.

    Go 3rd Party Ron! Your constituents want you to make the move!!

  22. Eric Dondero Says:

    Good point Jay. This sets an interesting precedent.

    Say months from now it’s Hillary vs. Rudy, and it’s a tight race. Say, a majority of LPers start fearing Hillary, and want to back Rudy. Now we have a precedent for the LNC to step in with a formal endorsement of Rudy Giuliani for President.

    The more I learn about this deal in SC, the more I like.

  23. Eric Dondero Says:

    And btw, do you all remember back in 1998, when Republican US Senator Orrin Hatch was the guest speaker at the Libertarian National Convention in Salt Lake City?

    Remember in 1996, when Bob Dole attended the Reform Party convention seeking their endorsement?

    What’s to stop Republican Nominee Rudy Giuliani from attending the Libertarian Convention in Denver in May, seeking an official edorsement from the delegates for his candidacy?

    We now have a precedent for this.

    Wow! This is sounding better and better.

  24. Eric Dondero Says:

    Hey guys, this opens up the door for all sorts of endorsements by the LP for lower level offices.

    What’s to stop some libertarian-leaning Republican now from getting the official endorsement of a State LP for his/her race for Congress?

    This is great

    What a fantastic day to be an RLC libertarian.

    You gotta admit, the absolute biggest winner in this whole deal is the Republican Liberty Caucus. The RLC has been pushing for this for 15 years

  25. Eric Dondero Says:

    Roger MacBride, 1976 Libertarian Party Presidential candidate, 1991-95 RLC National Chairman and the biggest advocate for the LP endorsing libertarian Republicans in Congressional and other races, is smiling down upon us from libertarian heaven today. Roger is saying “Good job Libertarian Party!!”

  26. Eric Dondero Says:

    Today, the Libertarian National Committee has acknowledged officially what we have always known all along: That the Political Party founded by the State Chairman of the Colorado Young Republicans in 1971 is indeed merely an off-shot of the GOP.

  27. barry b. Says:

    The LNC is doing what they feel is best to promote the party - that’s all - looking out for number one. Paul running as the LP candidate in 2008 would help spread awareness about the LP and perhaps bring new members into the group and thus additional funds and membership fees.

  28. Eric Dondero Says:

    Biggest Losers of today’s action??

    So-called “libertarian” Democrats. Those guys over at the mis-named “Democrat Freedom Caucus” must be crying in their whiskey sours over the LNC’s vote today.

    All those people last year who were advocatig that Libertarians link up with Democrats are totally and completely left out in the cold on this one.

    Essentially, what the LNC said today with a loud voice, is “WE IN THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY RECOGNIZE OUR HISTORIC CONNECTION TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.”

    Wonder how Markus Moulitas, of Daily Kos will react? He’s the one that started that huge “libertarians should align with Democrats” meme last year.

  29. Eric Dondero Says:

    Barry B, there are scores and scores of ex-Libertarian Party members running for public office as Republicans. Does this also mean that local Libertarian Parties are now free to endorse them? And if not, why not?

    A huge precedent has been set today. The LP won’t be able to turn back the clock. This is perhaps the biggest thing that the LP has done in decades.

  30. Eric Dondero Says:

    Half-right Tom Blanton.

    Yes, something very strange is indeed happening right before our very eyes. But it’s not Ron Paul who deserves the credit, it’s Rudy Giuliani.

    For the first time since Gerald Ford in the 1970s, the frontrunner for the Presidential Nomination of the Republican Party is “fiscally conservative/socially tolerant.”

    That’s what has shaken up the whole race.

    We would have only dreamed of such a thing in the 1990s.

    In fact, for a brief moment in 1996 we did dream of this: There was a short-lived draft William Weld for President campaign amongst Moderates and libertarian Republicans. Weld almost jumped in.

    Now Rudy has picked up that mantle. And he’s the frontrunner!!

    That’s thrown the whole GOP race up in the air.

    What you’re seeing is a fundamental realignement of the Republican Party right before our very eyes, from a formerly Religious Right controlled Party to “libertarian lite.”

    And the Libertarian Party? They are merely reacting to the competition.

    After all if you have a Republican Party that is “libertarian lite” why would mainline voters go for the hardened version?

  31. Jay Matthews Says:

    Dondero, you’re right. LPers will really warm up to Rudy when they discover comments like this one from the Baltimore Sun a couple weeks back:

    “Talking about cutting back on the Patriot Act, talking about cutting back on electronic surveillance, talking about cutting back on aggressive questioning—not torture, but aggressive questioning—wanting to remove our soldiers from Iraq in a way that would require them to give the enemy a time table of their retreat,” Giuliani said. “I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anything more irresponsible than that.”

    After all, LPers are very pro-patriot act, pro-surveillance, and pro-war.

    And what happened to your blowhard declaration about running for congress and unseating RP with that “balls-to-the-wall” campaign you said you’d have?

  32. resolution Says:

    RESOLUTION URGING CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL TO SEEK THE NOMINATION OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY

    WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party and Congressman Ron Paul share many common principles for liberty and prosperity in America, and

    WHEREAS, Congressman Ron Paul is a member of the Libertarian Party in good standing, and

    WHEREAS, Congressman Ron Paul was previously nominated by the delegates of the Libertarian National Convention to serve as the Libertarian Party’s 1988 presidential candidate, and

    WHEREAS, Congressman Ron Paul, through the efforts of his current presidential campaign, has ignited a renewed passion for liberty across America, and

    WHEREAS, for over 35 years, the members of the Libertarian Party have continually fought for liberty through activism, education and the political process, and

    WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party and its members have remained respectful, and in many cases, supportive of Congressman Ron Paul’s campaign seeking the Republican presidential nomination, and

    WHEREAS, the Libertarian National Committee encourages competition in the race for the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination and is appreciative of all candidates who make the commitment to run;

    NOW THEREFORE, in the event that Republican primary voters select a candidate other than Congressman Paul in February of 2008, the Libertarian National Committee urges Congressman Ron Paul to seek the presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party to be decided in Denver, Colorado during Memorial Day weekend of 2008.

    FURTHERMORE, The Libertarian National Committee congratulates Congressman Paul for his success in spreading a message of peace, prosperity and freedom and also thanks the thousands of activists and supporters across the United States who have made this unprecedented success possible.

    RESOLUTION ADOPTED unanimously by vote of the Libertarian National Committee, the 9th day of December 2007, in the city of Charleston, State of South Carolina, United States of America.

  33. Eric Dondero Says:

    Jay Mathews, I refer you to a poll conducted by the Libertarian Party National HQ in 2003 of their membership to see what the support was for the Pro-Defense position.

    Fully 40% of all LP members were classified as “Hawks in favor of the War in Iraq.”

    Now, what makes you think that the entire Libertarian Party is Anti-War?

    Are you aware that for two decades there was a very active Libertarian Defense Caucus within the LP fighting for the Pro-Defense position?

    Are you aware that John Hospers endorsed Bush in 2004, cause he couldn’t stomach Anti-War Badnarik?

    Yes, you’re right, a healthy chunk of the Anti-War wing of the Libertarian Party will not vote for Rudy, but the Pro-Defense Libertarians will. I’m currently Chairman of the Libertarian Defense Caucus. I speak to LDC members every day. Every single one of them likes Rudy. They prefer Wayne Root, but if Root doesn’t get the LP Nomination, they’ll go GOP with Rudy.

  34. Eric Dondero Says:

    Prediction:

    Watch for a major Pro-Defense endorsement of Wayne Root from a very respected Libertarian Party leader in the coming weeks, or maybe even days.

    Hint: He’s known in some circles as the “Orignal Libertarian.”

  35. Eric Dondero Says:

    Jay Matthews, Rudy Giuliani has more prominent libertarians supporting him than all other GOP candidates combined including Ron Paul.

    Paul has Barry Goldwater, and the Mayor of Costa Mesa, CA.

    Rudy has Dennis Miller, Deroy Murdock, Ryan Sager, Clint Bolick, Grover Norquist, Sally Pipes, Steve Forbes, two Cato Scholars, and on and on and on… I count over 40 so far.

  36. Jay Matthews Says:

    2003? Could you find something older to reference?? Not only that you just backed up my point, being pro-war is a minority viewpoint amongst LP voters. And if it was 40% over 4 years ago it’s safe to say it’s less now. You want to argue it’s even higher now?

    And how about Rudy’s other comments? How about Rudy’s law firm’s involvement with Cintra and the TTC? You think those views are in line with the majority of LP voters?

    “I’m currently Chairman of the Libertarian Defense Caucus. I speak to LDC members every day. Every single one of them likes Rudy.”

    And this proves what,......pro-war people like a pro-war candidate? Wow, I would never have guessed that could be possible.

    And how about that campaign of yours?

  37. Chris Bennett Says:

    Since 2000, Eric Dondero’s sole purpose is to drive the LP out of existence. He is a paid Republican hit-man, who thrives on seeing the LP fall to its knees!

  38. Eric Dondero Says:

    Here’s the Lose, Lose, Lose scenario for Anti-War Libertarians in 2008:

    1. Ron Paul tanks in the GOP primaries for President. Get’s 3 or 4% in New Hampshire. Hardly anything in Iowa or South Carolina. Limps into Florida, gets 2% there. A day later he drops out of the Primary race.

    2. Ron Paul loses his seat in Congress to Republican challenger Chris Peden.

    3. Come May, Pro-Defense Libertarian Wayne Root wins the LP Nomination for President.

    Ouch! Anti-War Libertarians defeated on all fronts. All they can do then is go home crying to MaMa.

  39. Eric Dondero Says:

    Sorry Chris, you are completely wrong. I like the LP. I praise the LP when they win local elections. And I hope Wayne Root wins the LP nomination as an insurance policy, in case the GOP nominates Social Con Huckabee.

    I just want the LP to be what they have always been, and to admit to it, (as they have appeared to do today), an arm of the Republican Party, aligned with the GOP, just like the Conservative Party of NY.

    It would be horrible if the LP just ceased to exist. Then we’d have zero insurance against the GOP moving completely into the Religious Right direction. We’d be stuck.

    They could say to us, “Ahh, you libertarians aren’t gonna do jackshit… You’ll end up supporting the GOP nominee whomever he or she may be, cause ya don’t have anywheres to go.” Just like the Dems do to the Blacks.

    But with the LP and 48 state ballot status we can always say to the GOP, “Oh yeah! Nominate Huckabee you jerks, and we’ll just run our own candidate on the LP line.”

  40. Eric Dondero Says:

    Jay Mathews, I humbly concede the point. You are correct. The Pro-Defense position within the Libertarian Party is the minority position. Has been that way since the middle 1970s. It’s gone up and down, probably from 20% to as high as 40%.

    A year ago, it was probably on the low end. After 9/11 and at the beginning of the Iraq War it was up in the 40% range.

    Today, I’d split the difference - pure conjecture on my part.

    Now that the Surge has worked, and polls out just yesterday indicate that the American public has vastly changed their views on the War in Iraq seeing the success of the Surge, I’d say the LPers reflect that general belief. Some LPers who may have been turned off by the lack of success of the War in 2005/2006 are now coming home to the winning side.

    So, you could see as much as 30 maybe 40% of the LP membership bolting to Giuliani in the Fall. Unless, of course Wayne Root is the LP nominee. But even with Root, a substantial number in swing States would vote for Rudy.

  41. Former LPer Says:

    The LP died when they gutted the platform and was taken over by big government neo-cons. I supported the LP for years and actively spread the word about the party and their candidates. I will never do so again. The last straw was the “Iraq Exit Strategy” which proposed keeping our troops in Iraq and FOREIGN AID!!

    When that happened I realized the LP had died a sad death.

    Now when I look on the front of the LP webpage I realize I was correct. It’s not full of articles about how our rights are being constantly violated but meaningless political drivel.

    Ron Paul is much more of a Libertarian than the phoney “libertarians” that took over the party.

  42. Thomas M. Sipos Says:

    Eric: “Here’s the Lose, Lose, Lose scenario for Anti-War Libertarians in 2008 … Ron Paul loses his seat in Congress to Republican challenger Chris Peden … Come May, Pro-Defense Libertarian Wayne Root wins the LP Nomination for President … Anti-War Libertarians defeated on all fronts. All they can do then is go home crying to MaMa.”

    And then Eric woke up. “Gosh, it was all a dream!”

  43. Former LPer Says:

    Eric Dondero,

    No true “libertarian” can support Rudy or any other big government candidate. Any “libertarian” who would vote for Rudy or ANY of the other republicans (except for Ron Paul) is nothing but a NEO-CON big government GOON!

    The fact of the matter is that the LP no longer exists. It has been invaded by big government neo-cons who don’t know what freedom is about.

    Thankfully, we have someone running for office (Ron Paul) who is every bit as TRUE of a Libertarian as Harry Browne!

    Once again, the LP is dead. It was taken over by big government warmongering neocons.

  44. Former LPer Says:

    Thomas,

    So pro-war libertarians are now calling themselves pro-defense?

    Pro defense from WHAT?????

    Iraq? LOL!

    Iran? LOL

  45. IO Says:

    Aren’t all Libertarians Pro-Defense? I think he meant to say, Pro-War.

  46. Wendy Says:

    I think it’s going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out in the next several months.

    @Dondero—in the case of Iraq, “anti-war” and “pro-defense” are synonymous

  47. Eric Dondero Says:

    Really Wendy. So tell us what’s the Anti-War Libertarian position for fighting Islamo-Fascism.

    Oops, I plum forgot. It’s to surrender to Al Qaeda, and let Radical Muslims take over our country.

  48. Eric Dondero Says:

    Former LPer, Neo-Con equals Anti-Choice on abortion. Ron Paul holds that position. Thus, he’s much more of a NeoCon than other GOP Presidential candidates.

  49. Eric Dondero Says:

    Thomas, let’s check the polls shall we?

    Rudy had a tough two weeks, but he’s rebounded in today and yesterday’s polling. He’s back up in Rasmussen Daily Tracking poll to 22 from 17 just a few days ago. He’s in First. Huckabee has dropped back down to 2nd at 17. So, Rudy has turned the corner, and is well on his way to winning the GOP nomination.

    On the Libertarian Party side, the LP website lists Wayne Root as the frontrunner, way out ahead of Imperator and Jingozian.

    GOP - Rudy likely winner

    LP - Wayne likely winner

    Still want to say I’m just “dreaming”?

  50. IO Says:

    How about when someone commits a criminal act, our law enforcement go after them? The idea that radical Muslims need to be attacked in the middle east so they don’t break laws in the US is for weak minded fools. Breakdowns in government programs that are supposed to provide that “security” is no reason to invade and occupy a foreign country.

  51. Jay Matthews Says:

    Notice how Dondero, whether citing polls or anything else, doesn’t provide a link to back up his diatribe. You can set your watch by it, along with evading questions about Rudy’s anti-civil liberties stance.

    Now Eric, how about that campaign you bragged about earlier this year:

    http://www.redstate.com/blogs/ericdondero/2007/may/16/i_am_declaring_for_congress_against_ron_paul_in_texas_cd_14

  52. Eric Dondero Says:

    Rudy’s civil liberties stances?

    Pro-Choice!

    What else do you need to know?

    Yeah, he’s for tolerance on Gays, against the Nanny-State, and pretty cool on opposing Political Correctness, and against Affirmative Action.

    But bottom line:

    Pro-Choice

    Which is more than could be said for Ron Paul.

  53. Eric Dondero Says:

    Criminal Act???!

    Are you insane? It was the most blatant Act of War in the entire History of the United States of America, save Pearl Harbor. We were directly attacked on our own soil.

    That wasn’t any damned “criminal act.” Sheesh, you sound like Bill Clinton, whose response to the first Twin Towers bombing in 1993 was “more dialogue” and “more understanding” of our “Muslim neighbors.”

  54. Eric Dondero Says:

    Hey Jay, still waiting on your response to the poll numbers?

    You stated that Giuliani couldn’t win, and that Wayne Root winning the LP nomination was “unlikely.” I’ve presented evidence to the contrarty. How about a response?

  55. Jay Matthews Says:

    Dondero, what planet are you living on? You must be quoting someone else. Go back and read from the top.

  56. Trent Hill Says:

    “1. Ron Paul tanks in the GOP primaries for President. Get’s 3 or 4% in New Hampshire. Hardly anything in Iowa or South Carolina. Limps into Florida, gets 2% there. A day later he drops out of the Primary race.”

    You wish Dondero. He’s polling 5-7% in Iowa, 7-8% in NH, and 5-8% in SC. In Florida, he’s sitting at 4-5%, Michigan 7-8%, Nevada 8%.

    And this amongst Republicans who voted in the Republican primary in 2004. Which means all of the anarchists, libertarians, constitutionalists, greens, democrats, anti-establishment liberals, dissafected, and new voters—are all left out. It’s going to be funny to see the MSM react to this.

  57. Jay Matthews Says:

    You’re a certified moron if you think being pro-choice (if in fact that’s what he is, does anyone really know,.....including him?) equals being a defender of civil liberties.

  58. Derek Fronzero Says:

    Hey!
    This just in:

    Hillary Clinton is both pro-defense and pro-choice. And she’d probably be similar fiscally to Guliani.

    Libertarians for Hillary

    Prominent endorsements from big names will follow. She’s the perfect libertarian alternative to Ron Paul.

  59. Robert Milnes Says:

    The RP/RP candidacy just keeps getting worse for the Progressive Alliance. Maybe Ron Paul will keep going for GOP past Free of Ron Paul Day Feb. 5 & leave the LP alone. He’s definitely not revolutionary or even Progressive.

  60. Eric Dondero Says:

    Robert, that’s just it. Ron Paul is not only a Leftist, he’s a hardcore Leftist.

    He’s all about government control of women’s bodies.

    He hardly ever even mentions tax cuts any more. Back when he first ran in 1996, he was a “Bush Republican” and advertised himself as the “Taxpayer’s Best Friend.”

    Now all he talks about is “Bush’s fault for this, Bush’s fault for that. War sucks. Pacifism is great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”

    Plus he’s anti-Death Penalty, even for those who commit murder of children.

    Ron Paul has turned sharply Left. Hell, his top advisor Lew Rockwell has been romantically linked with Cindy Sheehan. You can’t get any more hard Left than that.

    The Progressives can have him. We Right Libertarians don’t want Ron Paul any more. He’s now one of yours.

  61. Eric Dondero Says:

    And how many times did Hillary Clinton cut taxes?

    When she matches Rudy’s 23 tax cuts, then come talk to me.

  62. Eric Dondero Says:

    Trent, take a gander at www.race42008.com today. I ain’t seeing any “8%” numbers for Ron Paul. I see a lot of “5%s”.

    Yeah, I’ll concede Ron Paul does well in New Hampshire. Congratulations to Ron Paul and the Ron Paul team for such a good showing in NH. But outside of NH he’s mired in 4 to 5% land.

    In fact, I saw one National Poll yesterday, I believe it was AP Ipsos, that had him at just 3% nationwide.

  63. Eric Dondero Says:

    Thanks to Race42008.com, 3 polls today for 3 key states: SC, NV and Iowa. Notice Ron Paul at 5%, 4%, and in Iowa 0%.

    Mason-Dixon GOP Iowa Caucus

    Mike Huckabee 32%
    Mitt Romney 20%
    Fred Thompson 11%
    John McCain 7%
    Rudy Giuliani 5%
    Undecided 19%
    Survey of 400 likely Republican caucus participants was conducted December 3-6. The margin of error is +/- 5 percentage points.

    by Aron Goldman @ 12:17 pm. Filed under Poll Watch
    [Comments (50)] [Trackback URL] [link] [Print This Post ]
    Poll Watch: Mason-Dixon GOP South Carolina Primary
    Mason-Dixon GOP South Carolina Primary

    Mike Huckabee 20%
    Rudy Giuliani 17%
    Mitt Romney 15%
    Fred Thompson 14%
    John McCain 10%
    Ron Paul 4%
    Undecided 18%
    Survey of 400 likely Republican primary voters was conducted December 3-6. The margin for error is +/- 5 percentage points.

    by Aron Goldman @ 12:10 pm. Filed under Poll Watch
    [Comments (9)] [Trackback URL] [link] [Print This Post ]
    Poll Watch: Mason-Dixon GOP Nevada Caucus
    Mason-Dixon GOP Nevada Caucus

    Rudy Giuliani 25%
    Mitt Romney 20%
    Mike Huckabee 17%
    Fred Thompson 9%
    John McCain 7%
    Ron Paul 5%
    Duncan Hunter 2%
    Undecided 14%
    Survey of 300 likely Republican caucus participants was conducted December 3-5. The margin for error is +/- 6%

  64. Rolf Lindgren Says:

    Eric;

    Ron Paul is going to get 3rd in Iowa. Huckabee will get first and Romney 2nd. Only Romney has the money and Huckabee the organization to compete with Paul in Iowa.

  65. Tom Blanton Says:

    The poll Dondero refers to where 40% of LP members supported the war was a poll taken in the LP News if my memory is correct. I recall that there were about 16 self-selecting respondents. I wonder how many of them were Dondero.

    The funny thing about all these libertarians who have endorsed Giuliani is that none of them are really recognized as libertarians by anyone except Dondero. As I’ve often said, anyone to the left of Hitler is a libertarian in Dondero’s twisted little mind.

    I’m wondering why Dondero isn’t asking the LP to back Larry Craig. After all he is a fiscal conservative and socially liberal. You can’t anymore libertine than cruising for anonymous sex in public bathrooms. That’s right up there with government subsidized adultery.

    Chris Bennett is absolutely correct: “Since 2000, Eric Dondero’s sole purpose is to drive the LP out of existence. He is a paid Republican hit-man, who thrives on seeing the LP fall to its knees!”

    Perhaps Mr. Knapp can shed more light on this as I recall him quoting Dondero saying something to the effect of what Chris Bennett said in an article some time back. The sad thing is that Dondero, with help from various other shills, has been fairly successful at his endeavor. There may even be more than one Dondero posting on the internet, according to some people.

    There are others that I won’t name who have taken up agitation within the LP as a full-time profession in the recent past.

    One wonders why Dondero is taken seriously in libertarian circles. Why would George Phillies appear on his bizarre radio program?

    But then one wonders a number of things about the LP, the LNC and the LNC staff at LPHQ. It seems there is one amazing thing after the next to wonder about. The libertarian sphere gets more bizarre with each passing day. Most bizarre is the acceptance of a fifth column from within the “libertarian movement”.

  66. NewFederalist Says:

    Any thread where one person has over 50% of the entries is … well, not so good.

  67. Bob Weber Says:

    The wisdom of Dondero (who knows more about libertarianism than anyone else):

    Giuliani is pro - civil liberties because he favors tax-funded abortions.

    Ron Paul is a neoconservative because he opposes abortion (but opposes federal abortion legislation on constitutional grounds).

    Ron Paul is an extreme leftist. ( I guess ‘’extreme leftists’’ all oppose abortion.)

    (Sorry, I have to cut this post short - I can’t stop laughing).

  68. Eric Dondero Says:

    The problem with your scenario Mr. Blanton, is the Fifth Column in indeed you and your cohorts.

    I was here first.

    I served on the Libertarian National Committee way back in 1986/87. I was Ron Paul’s Travel Aide for almost two years in his 1988 Libertarian Presidential campaign.

    Back then, the LP had a very active Libertarian Defense Caucus. It was quite well-known that the LP was “divided” on issues of foreign policy. There were non-interventionists and then there were “Tough on the Soviets” libertarians.

    Nowadays, you all make it seem like somehow we Pro-Defense Libertarians are the Newbies. The exact reverse is true.

    Remember, John Hospers, one of the original LDC members was the LP’s very first Presidential candidate.

  69. Eric Dondero Says:

    The wisdom of Bob Weber:

    Support for Islamo-Fascism equals support for Libertarianism.

    Being weak on Islamo-Fascism is a good thing, because Islamo-Fascists are our friends, they just want to be left alone, and want our Troops removed from their Territory. As soon as we do that, they’ll just thank us, and go on their merry way.

    So, libertairanism comes to mean:

    Force women to wear burqas, throw gay people in jail, stone prostitutes and loose women in the town square, outlaw free speech rights for newspapermen especially cartoonists, allow Muslims to kill heretics or anyone who defames Islam on the Streets like Theo van Gogh, allow for Fathers and Brothers to kill their daughters and sisters if they and embarras the family by going with a non-Muslim man.

    That’s the new definition of “libertarianism” according to Bob Weber and his pacifist Leftist friends.

  70. Rory Says:

    Chris: The Libertarian Party’s goal is to promote Libertarian values in the government. If that means they’re helping a guy who happens to be in another party, then it’s still working for the goal, so in my opinion, it should still be done.

  71. Morey Says:

    For the record, “NH” is an anti-LP partisan who shows up any every mention of “Ron Paul”. She’s caught up in the Paul momentum now, but in two months, she’ll be working alongside Dondero for Ghouliani.

    Jane, the next time you post your vitriol, I’m outing you. Consider yourself warned.

  72. Jay Matthews Says:

    “The funny thing about all these libertarians who have endorsed Giuliani is that none of them are really recognized as libertarians by anyone except Dondero.”

    Tom B., you’re dead-on. A few pages back I gave Dondero Reason magazine’s take on Rudy from the current issue after the sources he listed as credible for Rudy being libertarian were Dennis Miller (again) and ontheissues.org. Predictably since Reason actually knows something about libertarianism he had zero to say. It’s worth noting the first sentence can be and often is true for just about any candidate of any party. Here it is:

    “Some of Giuliani’s positions are libertarian, but the man himself is not. He has never looked over his shoulder and declared that Goldwater was right. Goldwater thought he was elected to repeal laws, not pass them. Giuliani, generally, likes to expand the boundaries of the state. He has no interest in rolling back the government to where it was before the Great Society, let alone the New Deal.”

  73. Tom Blanton Says:

    Fine, Mr. Dondero. I must have been duped in 1980 into thinking the LP supported noninterventionism. So what if you were there first, Dondero?

    You left the LP and joined the GOP and have since done nothing but try to destroy the LP and smear the reputations of LP members and other libertarians.

    Whether it is mental illness or alcoholism, I don’t know, but you are delusional if you believe that radical Muslims can take over America. You spew the talking points of radical Zionists and neoconservatives and then deny that neoconservatives exist or claim it is a code word for Jews.

    You hold out Giuliani as a libertarian, claiming he is fiscally conservative and socially tolerant - he is neither, nor is he a libertarian. The “libertarians” that you claim have endorsed Giuliani are all right-wing Republicans, like yourself. Giuliani is an authoritarian supporter of big government and he has proven himself to be remarkably ignorant on many issues. Anyone who would have Norman Podhoretz as a foreign policy advisor has truly gone off the deep end.

    Bizarre references to Ron Paul as a leftist and an affair between Lew Rockwell and Cindy Sheehan are so over the top it isn’t worth refuting. In fact, much of what you say is so distorted as to go beyond opinion but into the realm of fantasy. I can only conclude you are an idiot or a liar, perhaps both. It is obvious that you are a deranged warmonger - so deranged as to be oblivious to the fact that the warfare state you support is incompatible with small government and freedom.

    You are no libertarian, Dondero. You aren’t even a small government conservative. You aren’t pro-defense. You are a pro-war imperialist that favors preventive war and you are a dangerous political hack. You should go check yourself in, you need professional help.

  74. Tom Blanton Says:

    I’m not finished with you, Dondero. Not only are you a deranged warmonger, you are a depraved drama queen for thinking that a relatively small group of Muslim extremists pose an existential threat to America when they have little to no state backing, no air force, no navy, no missiles, and very little support from mainstream Muslims.

    My 85 year old father, who was a hardcore Goldwater Republican who left the GOP years ago, asked why he spent two years bombing Germany in WWII to fight fascism when now America has become a fascist nation. He knew in 2002 that Iraq was no threat to America. He shakes his head is disgust when the so-called conservatives praise FDR and Truman.

    My father considers it an insult when these tassled-loafer neocon faggots equate the threat that the Nazis posed to America with the threat of a bunch of kooky Muslims with AK-47’s.

    So, it is no surprise that a boozed-up drama queen would support a corrupt cross-dressing clown like Giuliani who promises more glorious war drama.

  75. Eric Dondero Says:

    Iraq, “no threat to the United States.”

    HEY YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE. THAT WAS 37 OF MY SHIPMATES WHO SADDAM HUSSEIN KILLED ON THE USS STARKE IN THE 1980S!!

    I think you owe me an apology YOU FUCK!

  76. Eric Dondero Says:

    Oh, and I guess you’re one of those Liberal pricks that suck in everything the liberal media feeds you, like “No, no, there were no Middle Eastern connections to the Oklahoma City Bombing. No Siree, Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols acted completely on their own.”

    And what about the fly zones, huh? In the 1990s, Saddam Hussein’s forces attacked our Jets on numbers occasions.

  77. Eric Dondero Says:

    No Blanton, I’m not trying to destroy the Libetarian Party. I want the LP to return to its original roots of John Hospers, Dana Rohrabacher, Jack Wheeler, Mike Dunn PRO-DEFENSE.

    Since you were involved in the 1980s in the LP, do you remember the Libetarian Defense Caucus? Do you deny that for decades there’s been a healthy, functioning and active Pro-Defense wing of the LP?

  78. Eric Dondero Says:

    Radical Muslims can’t take over America huh?

    What in the bloody hell do you think they’re doing right now in Europe? Are you that friggin’ ignorant. Did you not watch the news two weeks ago, when the Muslims were rioting all over Paris? This time they actually shot at Police.

    When was the last time you were in Europe?

    I was there just four years ago. And in the last 10 years, it’s incredible the difference. People are scared now in Europe. Muslim gangs roam the streets at night. They throw rocks at Gays and Lesbians on the streets. They harrass people at bus stops.

    Is this what you want for the United States?

  79. Eric Dondero Says:

    Is Sally Pipes a “Right-wing Conservative”? Since when is the Pacific Research Institute that she headed for many years considered “Conservative?”

    Is Clint Bollick a “Right-wing Conservative?

    Ryan Sager?

    Forbes? Maybe? I’ll grant you him. He’s a libertarian conservative in both camps.

    But Sally Pipes????????

  80. Eric Dondero Says:

    Yupper, the world turned upside down. The Leftist Libertaians are now pushing a line that people like Dennis Miller who is Pro-Choice and Pro-Free Markets, and wants to fight Islamo-Fascism is “not a libertarian” but Ron Paul, who defacto supports Islamo-Fascism, says in debates that the Communist Vietnamese are “our friends,” and wants to outlaw abortions and throw women in jail for controlling their reproductive lives is somehow “libertarian.”

    I thought I’d never see to live the day, where support for Fascism, Anti-Choice, and Pro-Communist means “libertarian.”

  81. [email protected] Says:

    Quoth Tom Blanton:

    “The poll Dondero refers to where 40% of LP members supported the war was a poll taken in the LP News if my memory is correct.”

    I could be wrong, but I think you’re incorrect. I don’t think there was a poll at all, but rather that then-editor of LP News Bill Winter simply asserted that anecdotally 40% of his contacts with LP members put them in the pro-war corner.

    At least one of the other “polls” Dondero cites isn’t a “poll” either. “Liberty Decides” is a fundraising program for the LP, and those candidates who have contributed, or had contributed in their names, the most money get featured at the top. My recollection is that Root himself donated the first $5k in his name, and I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that he’s contributed most of the remainder himself as well. Nothing wrong with that, of course—his money is as green as anyone else’s—but the idea that ranking in “Liberty Decides” is an indicator in delegate support is both untested and unlikely.

    “Chris Bennett is absolutely correct: ‘Since 2000, Eric Dondero’s sole purpose is to drive the LP out of existence. He is a paid Republican hit-man, who thrives on seeing the LP fall to its knees!’

    “Perhaps Mr. Knapp can shed more light on this as I recall him quoting Dondero saying something to the effect of what Chris Bennett said in an article some time back.”

    I’ll have to find that article, if it’s still on the web, some time. I used to have it bookmarked, but that was a few computers ago. In any case, yes, my recollection is that Dondero publicly stated, some time circa 2000-2002, that the LP “must be destroyed” and urged others to help him, if I recall his words correctly, “put a stake through the LP’s heart.”

    Of course, Eric’s opinions of the LP seem to change more often than his underwear, so who knows whether he really meant it or was just pissed off?

    Also, “Saddam” didn’t kill his shipmates. He didn’t serve on the Stark, but on one of its sister ships. The US Navy and a US Senate investigative committee both ruled the missile launch on the Stark a tragic accident just as Saddam said it was, and Saddam paid reparations to the sailors’ families. At the time, Iraq and the US were allies versus Iran and a pilot apparently got his navs messed up and thought that he was in Iranian waters, plugging an Iranian ship. So if you were thinking about giving him an apology, please don’t—he’s abusing the memory of dead US Navy sailors to troll for a cheap political score, and that kind of bullshit shouldn’t be encouraged.

  82. Ken Hamilton Says:

    Eric Dondero,

    Instead of trashing Ron Paul you, as a Giuliani supporter, had best be a whole more concerned about Mike Huckabee.

  83. Google Yahoo Says:

    Thomas Knapp is correct about Bossman’s Mate Dondero.

    But saying “Eric’s opinions of the LP seem to change more often than his underwear” doesn’t say a whole lot really.

    My sources tell me that Dondero never changes his underwear. Being that he is in fact one gigantic skid mark, what would be the point?

    Q: What do you call a cowboy boot with a mustache on the tip?

    A: Eric Dondero with the shit kicked out of him.

  84. Jay Matthews Says:

    When the topic of a national ID card came up in the debate tonight Rudy the libertarian spoke out in favor of it. Can we put his face on Mt. Rushmore now?

  85. Bill Wood Says:

    I must point out here that Bob Barr has worked hard to help the Libertarian Party grow. You can do a goggle search and see that he has been on FOX News, ABC and numerous other media outlets talking about the LP and why he joined. He has stepped up to the plate to be an LNC Rep. which cost a person alot of time and money, all on his dime. Plus he has to put up with alot of crap from the “Your not a Libertarian unless you were born one crowd” We need more people like Bob to step up!

  86. Tom Blanton Says:

    That’s right, Dondero. Iraq: no threat to the United States. You neglect to mention the USS Starke wasn’t docked anywhere near the U.S. now was it?

    No, your buddies that got killed were killed because of another American fiasco involving the intervention into the affairs of other nations. That time it was the war between Iraq and Iran that we helped Saddam out with. I guess you’re too boozed up to remember that the U.S. was providing your country’s ally du jour with intel and loan guarantees that enabled him to fight a war against Iran.

    So, don’t look for any apologies from me, Dondero. Perhaps your government should apologize.

    The no-fly zones prove my point that Iraq was no threat to the U.S.

    For all I know, the U.S. government was lying about Iraq shooting at U.S. planes. If this was true, Iraq never hit a plane. Not very threatening - unless they did shoot down planes and the U.S. lied about that - or maybe it was the “liberal” media that just didn’t tell us.

    I see you have bought into Laurie Mylroie’s conspiracy theories about the OKC bombing and Saddam. Of course, she is a neocon hack working for the American Enterprise Institute. I believe she wrote a book once with Judith Miller, the NY Times “journalist” who printed every word of Chalibi’s propaganda prior to the current war in Iraq - you know, all the crap that has since been refuted widely. But I guess we’ll never know for sure as your boy Bush and his gang still won’t release a lot of the evidence from the OKC case.

    And yes, I deny “that for decades there’s been a healthy, functioning and active Pro-Defense wing of the LP”. I’d say it has been unhealthy, disfunctional and not particularly active. It certainly hasn’t been effective at articulating any coherent pro-defense message that resonated within the LP.

    I don’t know what Sally Pipes is - I am not familiar with her. I’d be surprised if Clint Bollick actually endorsed Giuliani. Ryan Sager is another think tank libertarian who went to the dark side and like so many others, including yourself Dondero, got it all wrong on Iraq. I don’t know what to call Sager, but it wouldn’t be libertarian - perhaps a whore?

    But who cares what people call themselves? Glenn Beck says he is a libertarian at heart. I would guess that anyone who would endorse Giuliani is not much of a libertarian and a fool. Thanks to people like yourself, Dondero, the word “libertarian” has little meaning anymore. But, that is the way you want it, right?

  87. Tom Blanton Says:

    Let’s see now, since Giuliani is only proposing war on Muslim nations and not communist nations, he is a de facto supporter of communism. Since he against the decriminalization of marijuana for medical purposes, he favors cancer victims being repeatedly raped in prison.

    But most importantly, Giuliani supports Islamofascism! But only when he is making money from it. How about this folks:

    “The contradictory and stunning reality is that Giuliani Partners, the consulting company that has made Giuliani rich, feasts at the Qatar trough, doing business with the ministry run by the very member of the royal family identified in news and government reports as having concealed KSM—the terrorist mastermind who wired funds from Qatar to his nephew Ramzi Yousef prior to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, and who also sold the idea of a plane attack on the towers to Osama bin Laden—on his Qatar farm in the mid-1990s.”

    Read the whole nasty story here:

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0748,barrett,78478,6.html

    So, if you support Giuliani, you support Islamofascism.

    And, if you support Giuliani, you support government subsidies for lying corrupt politicians who cheat on their wives:

    “When pressed by The News Thursday, aides to the Republican presidential hopeful conceded that Nathan got police protection “sporadically” before December 2000 - the previously acknowledged beginning of her taxpayer-funded detail.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2007/12/07/2007-12-07_judith_nathan_got_security_earlier.html

    And then there is this stuff:

    “The firemen’s union is going to harry the Giuliani campaign until the whole, sordid story of how a no-bid contract with Motorola and that company’s cozy relationship with Giuliani led to the deaths of so many…”

    and

    “However, the trial of Bernie Kerik, a former Giuliani protégé charged with 16 counts of fraud, conspiracy, and lying on his federal disclosure forms, has a much shorter fuse and packs much more explosive potential.”

    All as reported (with links to follow) by Dondero’s favorite guy, Justin Raimondo:

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11958

    But, hey, so what. All you drama queens that dig cross-dressing liars that hang around with corrupt cops, profit from Islamofascists, cheat on their wife, and want to see cancer patients anally raped in prison should still vote for Giuliani because he is also in bed with radical Zionists who want to bankrupt America by fighting wars in the Mideast to keep evil Muslims from putting burkas on your wife, mistress, and favorite hooker.

  88. Bob Weber Says:

    Re the Donderoo’s rejoinder: has anyone here expressed support for ‘”islamofascism”? Apparently, not supporting a illegal, unprovoked, and unconstitutional war equals “support for Islamofascism”!

    As for the attack on the USS Stark, the Stark was in the narrow confines of the Persian Gulf escorting Iraqi tankers from Iranian air attacks. (This is the context of the mistaken U.S. shootdown of an Iranian airliner by the Vincennes.) Unless you believe that Saddam Hussein was stupid enough to attack forces which were supporting him, you have to conclude that the attack on the Stark was a mistake. (The Reagan administration actually blamed Iran for the attack!)

    FYI, the attack on the Stark consisted of one Iraqi fighter firing a couple of “shoot and scoot” missiles at the Stark and scooting. By comparison, the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty involved multiple aircraft and boats attacking the Liberty over several hours, making Swiss-cheese out of the Liberty, killing or wounding much of the crew, even machine-gunning the lifeboats as the crew attempted to launch them. But I’m sure Dondero will affirm that the attack on the Liberty was one big mistake. (I don’t feel bad about putting words into Dondero’s mouth, since he doesn’t feel bad about putting words into mine.)

    BTW, by Donderovian logic, since I don’t think that the attack on the Liberty justifies a war with Israel, this must mean I support the attack on USS Liberty.

  89. Eric Dondero Says:

    You’re either with us or against us Weber.

    You either oppose Islamo-Fascism or you support it.

    If you’re silent on the issue, or if you pretend it doesn’t exist, you’re as good as being an Islamo-Fascist supporter.

  90. Eric Dondero Says:

    Supporting Saddam Hussein?? You fuck! The United States wasn’t supporting Saddam Hussein. I was there asshole. I can tell you from first hand experience it was the Iraqis who were our enemy.

    I’ve got a Navy Expeditionary Medal for service in a War Zone - the upper Persian Gulf during the heart of the Iraq/Iran War. There were only two times that my ship the USS Luce DDG-38 Guided Missile Destroyer, went to General Quarters for real - no drill. Both times was because Saddam Hussein’s missile defenses had locked on target to our ship.

    Scariest mother-fucking 2 hours of my life.

    So, don’t you dare tell this Sailor that Saddam Hussein was our friend and ally in the Iraq/Iran War. The Iranians left us the fuck alone. It was the Iraqis who were the enemy.

    And it was the Iraqis who killed the 37 sailors on the Stark, just as they almost did twice to my ship.

  91. Eric Dondero Says:

    And when did the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty happen? I see you neglected to tell our audience here, implying that it was relatively recent.

    Hey everyone, the attack on the USS Liberty by the Israelis happened in 1969

    That’s 40 friggin’ years ago. And yet the Anti-Semite/NeoNazis still bring it up on a regular basis, yet completely and totally ignore the Iraqi attack on the USS Stark.

  92. Eric Dondero Says:

    No Blanton, the attack on the Stark was the very beginning of a long string of Iraqi assaults on the United States, including the invasion of our ally Kuwait, the violation of the No Fly Zone treaty all throughout the 1990s, Iraqi Intelligence training of Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols who went on to bomb the Federal Building in Oklahoma City killing 82 Americans, and worst of all, the harboring of Two Terrorist Training Camps in Iraqi Territory which trained Al Qaeda all throughout the late 1990s well into 2003 - Salman Pac and Answar Al-Islam.

    Oh, and did I forget to mention the welcoming of Zarcawi by Saddam Hussein into Iraq, America’s Number 3 Most Wanted Terrorist after 9/11.

  93. Eric Dondero Says:

    I have no eartly idea who Lori Mylouri is?

    I do know Jayna Davis. Jayna documented extensively the connections between Iraqi Intelligence and the OKC Bombing in her book “The Third Terrorist.” It was endorsed by former CIA Chief James Woolsey. Jayna was an investigative reporter for the CBS affiliate in OKC at the time of the bombing, and was the very first reporter on the scene.

    Ms. Davis is supported by numerous Oklahoma elected officials including Rep. Charles Key, and State Senator Mike Roberts.

  94. Eric Dondero Says:

    Finally, a rational coherent comment here at TPW.

    Yes Ken, I agree. I am very concerned about Mike Huckabee. He’s awful. The very worst Republican candidate to come along since Gary Bauer.

    If the GOP nominates Huckabee, it’s all over. We Republicans will lose everything. He’ll be a complete embarrassment, even worse than Ron Paul.

    But he won’t win. He’s already down in the polls again as of yesterday.

  95. Thomas M. Sipos Says:

    Hey Dondero, didn’t you make a Big Announcement a few month ago? Something like, you were involved in an investigation of the antiwar movement, and that very soon you’d be revealing evidence proving that the antiwar movement is funded by Islamo-terrorism?

    Whatever happened to your antiwar/Islamo-terrorism exposé?

  96. Eric Dondero Says:

    Hey, a bit of breaking news for all you Ron Paul fans.

    Paul drew the only loud boos of the debate, when he defended Castro and said we should work to make him a friend of ours.

    Needless to say the Hispanic audience at the Univision debate was not too keen on Ron Paul’s remarks.

  97. Thomas M. Sipos Says:

    I don’t see why Dondero dislikes Huckabee.

    Many “social conservatives” hate “Islamo-fascism,” and would gladly bankrupt the nation while sacrificing innocent youth (foreign and domestic) in a Holy Crusade against “Islamo-fascism.”

    Isn’t that the important thing?

  98. Eric Dondero Says:

    Hispanics Hate Ron Paul:
    Ron Paul: Not a panderer

    This just coming over the wires… From the Politico.com which blogged from the debate… Not one, not two, but three rounds of boos for Ron Paul the Hugo Chavez/Fidel Castro lover…

    by Jonathan Martin, Politico

    He just walked into the lion’s den by saying we ought to both talk and trade with Castro’s Cuba.

    Loud boos followed.

    He then said our policies propped up the likes of Fidel and Hugo Chavez.

    More boos.

    And then there was a third round as he finished his statement.

    Needless to say, the Ron Paul post-debate party won’t be at the Versailles over on Calle Ocho (though the ropa vieja and plantains are superb).

  99. Eric Dondero Says:

    Thomas Sipo, right you are. But they are NeoCons. They want to fight Islamo-Fascism cause they see it as a threat to Christianity.

    We libertarians want to fight Islamo-Fascism because we see it as a direct threat to our civil liberties: They’re against Marijuana legalization, against prostitution, against sex outside of marriage, against homosexulaity, against gambling, against alcohol, against sexy clothing, against topless beaches, against free speech rights, even against Teddy Bears.

  100. Eric Dondero Says:

    Sipos, funny you should bring that subject matter up. Very timely of you.

    Stay tuned… That’s all I can say… Just stay tuned…

    Still 60 days til the primaries start heating up.

  101. Tom Blanton Says:

    The U.S. was supporting Saddam in the Iraq-Iran war and Dondero was there doing his patriotic duty keeping the sea lanes open so Saddam could sell enough oil to keep the war effort going. Thanks for defending my freedom, Dondero.

    Too bad about the USS Stark, but freedom isn’t free, Dondero. Either is militaristic imperialism or national greatness.

    Again, thank you for your service Mr. Dondero. Praise Allah that those Shiites didn’t take over Iraq. Oh wait, they did. Well, nobody can say you didn’t do your part to keep the Baathist Sunnis free from the evil Iranian backed Shia.

  102. Tom Blanton Says:

    Wait, Dondero. Don’t go getting all depressed now. The next time the U.S. intervenes in Iraq maybe the Sunnis will be back in power and your efforts in the eighties won’t seem like a total waste and the lives of the men who died on the USS Stark won’t have been in vain.

  103. Eric Dondero Says:

    Hey Guys & Gals, looks like tonight hasn’t been a particularly good night for Ron Paul. Feast your eyes on this headline from HotAir.com:

    Politico “Ron Paul booed at Spanish-language debate, with good reason”

    Note - Ron Paul’s got a 40% Hispanic District in South Texas. Furthest southern point in the District is a mere 2 hour drive from Mexico. Wonder how the Hispanics, in his Congressional who luuuuuuuv! Univision are going to react to their Congressman being booed 3 times by fellow Hispanics.

  104. Eric Dondero Says:

    Good night you all. Going to bed for the night. And I’ll sleep well, knowing that the “Great” Ron Paul, got booed three times in one debate by the audience.

    Not once, not twice, but three times.

    Buenas Noches a todos de Ustedes. Hasta la proxima vez, podemos discutir mas sobre las cosas politics. Pero, en este momento estoy muy cansado.

    A parte de eso, tendre buenos suenos, por que el pinche Cabron que llama Ron Paul tenias muy mala suerte esta noche.

    Tengo una gran sonrisa ahora

  105. Jay Matthews Says:

    Those who actually watched the debate know Dondero is being his deceptive self. In reality Dr. Paul received very nice applause, (among the loudest actually), from the start of the debate. The boos occurred when a question was asked about Castro and Chavez. There was obviously an pro-intervention contingent in the crowd who didn’t like his consistent stance on trading and talking with nations.

    Of course it’s easy to be an armchair general with the lives of others.

    Now how about an explanation for that campaign you’re supposed to unleash?

    http://www.redstate.com/blogs/ericdondero/2007/may/16/i_am_declaring_for_congress_against_ron_paul_in_texas_cd_14

  106. JMalone-TN Says:

    If Eric Dondero represents what being a member of the LP is… then I definitely want to reconsider membership! He seems to be nothing more than a loud mouth bigot. Thanks for a better understanding… I was soooo close to becoming an LP member.

    Joseph Malone

  107. Hugh Jass Says:

    “For the first time since Gerald Ford in the 1970s, the frontrunner for the Presidential Nomination of the Republican Party is ‘fiscally conservative/socially tolerant.’”

    Maybe so, but additionally, the frontrunner for the Republican Party is also the most authortarian one since Richard Nixon. And BTW, Mr. Dondero, you have yet to offer a rebuttal to the several un-libertarian positions Giuliani has taken that I offered to you in the Chris Bennett thread.

  108. Google Yahoo Says:

    Hugh Jass,

    How can that be? Richard Nixon was a Republican from California.

    All Republicans from California are libertarian according to Mr. Dondero.

    Why does the LP even bother to have a state party in California when all the republicans there are libertarian?

  109. Sean Scallon Says:

    Eric you can site the polls you want and I can site the polls I want showing Ron Paul polling at 9% in New Hampshire (AP), 8% in Iowa (also AP) and 8% in South Carolina (Wofford) so let’s leave it at that. We won’t know who’s right until election day.

    Although I would say raising over $10.8 million over the quarter is a pretty good indication of support.

    Now for the matter at hand. You and I both agree with the recent LNC moves. You’re pipe dreaming if you think Libertarians will vote for Guliani (especially a Guliani camapaign that losing support if you notice recent polls). The Republican Libertarian Caucus is a good idea in theory and practice, if it’s run by compent people. However, you are neither competent nor even close to functional as human being and as a result the Republican Party has become a party of big spenders and a party dedicated empire abroad and at home. The RLC has had absolutly no influence whatsoever on the course of the party thanks to neocons/idiots like you. Notice, this recent ruling from LNC came because of Ron Paul candidacy, not because of anything YOU did. Only the success Ron Paul has had so far has changed so minds on the LNC.

    The RLC will become an effective force within the GOP when reprobates like Dendaro and like-minded neocons masquerading as libertarians (like those at the STATO Institute) are kicked out and sent into exile at GOP headquarters where they belong, licking envelopes all day, while Ron Paul-type people are there putting the pressure and helping to elect candidates who reflect true libertarian views.

  110. Richie Says:

    Eric, you’re a moron. Ron Paul didn’t “defend” Castro, and he has never “defended” any communist nations. You’re just grasping at straws. Dr. Paul wants to spread Libertarianism by influence, not the barrel of a gun. That’s the true Libertarian position.

  111. Jay Harris Says:

    If Ron Paul had his way, America would be a disaster. His leave everybody alone method doesn’t work when a lot of people already want to kill you. If we started out as a leave everybody alone country, maybe we’d be Switzerland or one of those nations, but we are the United States of America, the most hated, feared, and admired country in the world. We need to be peacemakers but we cannot be complacent and that’s what Ron Paul stands for.

  112. Susan Hogarth Says:

    Someone asks “Did [the LNC] vote to let the Ron Paul NH campaign purchase the use of BallotBase, or are they offering it as an in-kind contribution?”

    I attended the meeting, but since much of the Paul/BallotBase discussion was in executive session (that is, closed to non-LNC LP members), I’m still piecing this together. However, here is my understanding:

    The LNC voted to allow RP supporters to sign up and make calls in NH independently of the RP campaign. My understanding was that this is an attempt to capture the names and email addresses of RP supporters, as they will have to sign up to use BallotBase.

    I understand the reasoning, as I do with Barr’s resolution. The LNC wants to both accede to the strong desire of many longtime LP supporters that the LP treat RP as a Libertarian rather than strictly as a Republican, and the LNC wants to be able to capture the names of some RP supporters. I am still pondering the resolution, but I have to agree with Tom and many others that the use of BallotBase to make Ron Paul calls is pretty blatantly a misuse of Party resources.

    I was also stunned by the vote to (again) disband the Advertising and Publications Review Committee, especially in light of the request of the executive director to keep it in place.

  113. Jay Matthews Says:

    “If we started out as a leave everybody alone country, maybe we’d be Switzerland or one of those nations, but we are the United States of America, the most hated, feared, and admired country in the world. We need to be peacemakers but we cannot be complacent and that’s what Ron Paul stands for.”

    Jay, once the world became used to the U.S. becoming one of those countries like Switzerland people would not want to kill us. They’d see the change in policy is real and would adjust accordingly. RP often talks about the founder’s advice to be friends with nations, to talk and trade with them. The other aspect to that policy is in the world of international relations nations don’t attack their friends when there is a difference of opinion. (At least not as a first resort.)

    To continue on the same path would be doing what the CIA and Wolfowitz site as the cause of 9/11. Notice how in the debates no one challenges RP on this stance? Why, because he’s being factual. The other neocons on the stage would have you believe they somehow know better than the CIA. Also, when RP uses the example of how would we feel if China was occupying our land no one challenges him on that premise either. They all shut up. But those same hypocrites think other nations should allow the U.S. to do whatever it wants in their country.

  114. [email protected] Says:

    Quoth Eric Dondero:

    “I do know Jayna Davis. Jayna documented extensively the connections between Iraqi Intelligence and the OKC Bombing in her book ‘The Third Terrorist.’

    I need to finish reviewing The Third Terrorist some time. Here’s part one.

    Bottom line: Far from “documenting” any connection between Iraqi intelligence and the OKC bombing, she simply asserts such a connection and then tells stories given by anonymous sources about how an Iraqi immigrant ran around OKC glowering at people. She sensationally hints that one key figure is both an “underground” business operator (actually, I found property tax records implicitly attesting to the legitimacy of his enterprise) and a “stateless Palestinian” (but she slips and admits that he’s an Israeli).

    The case for Eric Dondero being a paid mole for the Republican National Committee is stronger than the case Davis makes for Iraqi government involvement in the OKC bombing.

  115. Trent Hill Says:

    “Needless to say, the Ron Paul post-debate party won’t be at the Versailles over on Calle Ocho (though the ropa vieja and plantains are superb).”

    I know nothing about this debate, but judging by the cuisine (ropa vieja, old clothes) it was in Miami or Ft. Lauderdale with a large Cuban population. No wonder he was boo’ed when talking about opening up the trade embargo against Cuba.

    So Dondero, are you telling me you are pro-embargo? How incredibly fascist of you.

    And my fiance is Cuban, so don’t come back with any know-nothing type crap.

  116. Jay Matthews Says:

    For those who are interested, here are RP’s answers in the debate last night with English subtitles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLOUHWlZsqU&eurl=http://www.dailypaul.com/

  117. Google Yahoo Says:

    Congressman John Paul. Nice.

  118. Tom Blanton Says:

    Hey Dondero, here’s the neocon chick that will give you that 4-hour erection for sure: Laurie Mylroie. Not only does she think Saddam was behind OKC, but also the 1993 WTC bombing and 9/11.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0312.bergen.html

    Maybe when Richard Perle is through with her, you can have a shot. Sources say Alex Jones turned her down, though.

  119. Gary Odom Says:

    I used to think my fellow CP’s had the silliest threads humanly possible on this site. But I think this one may be in a class by itself.

  120. Eric Dondero Says:

    Nice of Tom to chime in here. But I’ll take the word of former CIA Director James Woolsey who enthusiastically endorsed Jayna’s book over Tom Knapp’s views on the matter.

  121. James Bell Says:

    What is Bob Barr and the LNC thinking? They should respect Congressman Dr. Ron Paul enough to at least wait until after Super Tuesday to make such a public proposal. He has done pretty well over the past 20 years without LP influence. Out of desperation to generate media attention, the LNC risk painting Dr. Paul as “the loser”, just weeks before the voting begins. LNC should be focused on those who have announced they will seek the LP nomination, and not trying to undermine Ron Paul’s credibility. Why can’t “we” as the Libertarian Party make our own news instead of trying to steal the thunder from others? At this point, the LP label is a liability not an asset to Dr. Paul. While George Phillies and Steve Kubby may not be the most impressive presidential candidates, at least they are real libertarian candidates with a real message of liberty. The LNC should be focused on how they intend to capitalize the Ron Paul Revolution and the tens of thousands of Ron Paul revolutionaries who may still be “politically homeless” after the ’08 election.

  122. libertyforall1776 Says:

    Hmm, isn’t Eric Dondero the one who got fired from Cong. Ron Paul’s staff for working on his book on the taxpayer’s dime?!

    How could a warmonger like Dondero be libertarian-principled? At best he has some leanings, but certainly unprincipled. Remember when he debated Ken Prazak on the war at the LPI Convention—clear as day who was principled, and it wasn’t Dondero!

    Ron Paul is a man of principle, and I am proud to be associated with this man of liberty.

  123. [email protected] Says:

    Eric,

    For the love of God … if I cited a Bill Clinton appointee as evidence for ANYTHING, you’d laugh your ass off.

    Why not go with the endorsement of David Schippers, chief counsel in the Clinton impeachment? He endorsed the book so heartily that he wrote the forward to it, in which he notes:

    “On the morning of April 19, 1995, my tranquility and feelings of security were demolished in one horrific explosion. ... Along with many other citizens, my suspicions initially focused on possible middle eastern connection. The bombing and murder of innocents was a classic Arab operation, and the method conformed to …the attack on Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia.”

    That’s quite an impact on a person, causing him to know and compare the “method” of a bombing that won’t even happen until the following year! That’s the forward, and the book just goes downhill from there.

    Instead of just taking Woolsey’s word for it, you should probably actually consider reading the book yourself before endorsing its conclusions. The thing is a hot mess.

    That it proves nothing is irrelevant—it would be enough if it even made a plausible case AT ALL for what you’re crediting it with. It doesn’t even come close. It was apparently sold as non-fiction because it had to many unsupported plot elements to be sold as a cheap thriller novel.

  124. Tom Blanton Says:

    Jim “PNAC” Woolsey was pointing a finger at Iraq on September 12, 2001.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/12/ltm.13.html

    His credibility is right up there with “Curveball”

  125. redredme Says:

    yes head glass stay all speed stone

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