Libertarian and Constitution parties of New York speak at rally for Ron Paul at the state capitol

Estelle Edwards, Libertarian Party candidate for Suffolk County Executive, and Burr Deitz, chairman of the Constitution Party of New York, spoke at a rally to get Ron Paul on the ballot in New York that was held Tuesday, October 16 at the Capitol Building in Albany. You can view the entire rally at

60 Responses to “Libertarian and Constitution parties of New York speak at rally for Ron Paul at the state capitol”

  1. Jay Matthews Says:

    C’mon Robert, don’t disappoint us. Tell us Estelle Edwards isn’t a real libertarian because she supports RP.

  2. Robert Milnes Says:

    Well, I say again, Ron Paul has put libs in a very awkward position. Here we have some libs getting involved in GOP politics. A winning majority of delegates probably chosen before or on Super Duper Tuesday Feb 5 as in NY. Why bother to have a convention? Ron Paul will not win a single primary. At best he can drag on to the convention & pick up some delegates like Keyes did. No, the libs have a better system. A few non-binding primaries & several state conventions preceding the national convention. Think of what could be done by the REAL LP candidates with that $10+ mil. Is it worth it to hassle with the gop to get the MSM publicity? I don’t think so.

  3. Robert Milnes Says:

    A lib who supports Ron Paul/GOP is not a Real Libertarian. However it is temporary. A form of temporary insanity. RP syndrome.

  4. Fred C. Says:

    But a lib that supports relocating Palestinians, turning Afghanistan into a colony and a government cryogenics program is a real libertarian?

  5. Jay Matthews Says:

    Yes, the MSM publicity helps spread the message and gives the campaign credibility as well.

  6. G.E. Smith Says:

    Milnes is the expert on insanity. Just ask the poor newscaster he stalked.

  7. Robert Milnes Says:

    G.E., yes, somebody ask her if I stalked her or not. If not, you owe me another apology. Jay Matthews, how can the Bush duped MSM confer credibility to a lib? Fred C., seeing how Palestinians are a diaspora, just relocating would be-well, abd(already been done) A negotiated relocation, now that might help them. Stone Age Afghanistan. Bombing them back to the Stone Age? Unnecessary. Bringing it up to speed-21st century, might get a thank you. Cryogenics-what you should do to a species you extinct.

  8. Henry Georginias Says:

    No mentally healthy person could read what you wrote regarding your stalking of a newscaster and think you are anything but a stalker.

    It sounds like you still need serious psychiatric help.

  9. Robert Milnes Says:

    Henry Georginias, I’ll have you know that GE has falsely accused me of stalking before & apologized. I thought that was settled. But he relapses. I’ve never stalked anyone. I’ve never been charged with that. Just what is it I wrote there that leads to that incongruous conclusion? In your mind.

  10. Cody Quirk Says:

    Ron Paul on the ballot?

    If he declines to run for Prez. after he loses the GOP primary then this was nothing but a big fat waste of time!

  11. Jay Matthews Says:

    “Jay Matthews, how can the Bush duped MSM confer credibility to a lib?”

    It happens everytime time there is a positive segment about RP. Have you not seen recent wave of press RP has been getting in the last two weeks? (Above and beyond the usual.) You should check out regularly and you’ll see what I’m referring to. Each positive segment means more exposure, more credibility, and more money. Robert, this isn’t that complicated.

  12. Ken Mitchell Says:

    I am a LP member. My concern is, what does Ron Paul stand for? On some issues, like Iraq he is with the “Liberals” and others like abortion he is with the “Conservatives”. I am in agreement with Ron than I am with the other candidates, Rep. or Dem. I do not agree with the conservatives on global warming, I feel that it is an issue. The government should have little if any involvement in this issue. If Ron gets on the ballot of the GOP or as third party candidate, I will vote for him.

  13. Robert Milnes Says:

    Ken Mitchell, that is one reason I oppose RP. His candidacy is tempting as a quick fix. Vote for RP & all will be ok. Panacea. What I propose takes time & support. Support the libs are throwing away see Cody Quirk above. Cody, are you saying he will lose the gop primary/nomination? & Ken, if not the government, who or what should be involved in the global warming issue?

  14. Chris Says:

    if not the government, who or what should be involved in the global warming issue?

    Another BIG goverment “solution” from Robert Milnes.

  15. G.E. Smith Says:

    Robert Milnes wants to nuke the sun to stop global warming.

    Let’s just talk about pollution instead. Pollution is an act of aggression on the part of the polluter against the individual who is affected by the pollution. The solution to this is not more government regulations—which are merely allowances for pollution—but in the restoration of property rights. Who is to solve “global warming”? Individuals, not the fascist state led by newscaster-stalker / racist would-be mass murderers.

  16. Robert Milnes Says:

    Chris, GES, I merely asked the question. You both have not answered the question(Chris) or not very well(GES).

  17. G.E. Smith Says:

    I answered the question entirely. Nothing short of submission to the state will satisfy a sociopathic fascist (aka a “progressive”) like yourself.

    1. I do not believe that man/pollution have significantly contributed to any “global warming.” There is very little evidence to suggest this and much more to refute it.

    2. That’s beside the point. Pollutants do cause cancer and infringe on the quality of life. Any pollution that affects you negatively, you have a right to sue the aggressor. Any pollution that violates your property is criminal. It should be dealt with criminally, not with global government or progressive fascism.

  18. Robert Milnes Says:

    GES, 1. Oh, you are one of those. 2. Your solution is big govt. Civil & criminal procedings & all that goes with them.

  19. G.E. Smith Says:

    Tort-based justice is not “big government,” you idiot. It is the natural, peaceful way of solving problems.

  20. Robert Milnes Says:

    GES, & the criminal justice system?

  21. G.E. Smith Says:

    Perverted by victimless crimes. Pollution is not a victimless crime. Neither is stalking.

  22. Henry Georginias Says:

    Robert Milnes, you are NOT ideologically a libertarian. Why are you running as a Libertarian when its obvious you aren’t even close to actually ideologically being a Libertarian?

  23. Timothy Logsdon Says:

    Cody said: “If he declines to run for Prez. after he loses the GOP primary then this was nothing but a big fat waste of time!”
    I think he has a pretty good chance of winning the GOP primary election. Even if he lost, educating Americans about the Constitution and the unconstitutional programs that we have been burdened with is not a waste of time.

  24. Cody Quirk Says:

    First off, I wouldn’t try to get him on the ballot if he hasn’t decided to run as a independent, and then rejects doing so when the time comes, that would’ve been all for nothing and will leave egg on the face.

    Sorry, Ron might make some gains in the Primaries, but the GOP is dominated by the Establishment and they will make sure he never gets nominated. Another problem is the media is going to twist his beliefs and teachings and make him look like a nut to average Americans.

    That is why we need to start bottom up.

  25. Robert Milnes Says:

    Henry Georginias, I’ve answered that question many times & it is on my website. I scored left libertarian on the Quiz. Timothy Logsdon, Cody’s comment was a breath of fresh air. The only justification for Ron Paul candidacy I’ve seen is as you say “...educating…”. My complaint is that is evidently being accomplished at the expense of the real libertarian candidates. Then after RP loses & realistically, how can a single digit -or low double digit candidate win? since this is pretty much a one man movement,”... then this was nothing but a big fat waste of time.”

  26. Robert Milnes Says:

    Cody Quirk, agreed. The bottom up you refer to is via the LP which RP is not in. The ballot we are discussing is the GOP primary ballot in NY which evidently requires each candidate to get on without party help. Not an independent party or individual run for RP.

  27. disinter Says:

    Screw your defeatist attitude. I very well think Ron CAN win the nomination.

  28. futhark Says:

    Even if Ron Paul does not win the Republican nomination, his candidacy has definitely NOT been a waste of time and resources. His integrity alone makes has impressed even people who disagree with him on the issues and may eventually help the public demand a higher standard of conscientious and principled behavior in their candidates. As far as issues are concerned, an increasing number of people are questioning the globalist tactics of military intimidation and deficit spending. More and more are not only being repelled by the irresponsibility, criminality, and corruption among our current politicians, but are seeking political leaders who are not sniveling, lying shills of the globalist financial elite.

  29. Robert Milnes Says:

    disinter, are you referring to me or Cody Quirk? Or anybody who concludes Ron Paul will lose? I personally prefer to think I have a pragmatist attitude.

  30. Robert Milnes Says:

    futhark, c’mon. Dime a dozen democrats are against deficit spending. Obama & every Green were against the war from the get go. Ron Paul one man panacea is at issue. & whether all that support could have been better used by the real libertarian candidates.

  31. [email protected] Says:

    Mr. Milnes is correct—the focus of the rally is getting Paul on the GOP primary ballot.

    In New York, that isn’t a “gimme” as it is in many states. If I recall correctly, both John McCain and Bob Dole had to spend lots of money and possibly even litigate to accomplish it in 2000 and 1996 respectively. The New York GOP machine chooses its preferred candidate, gives that candidate help to get onto the primary ballot, and does its damnedest to block all opponents from getting on.

    Of course, if I was a New York LP or CP member, I’d want to know why my party’s candidates and officials were working to promote a Republican candidate while supposedly carrying the LP or CP banner.

  32. Joe Says:

    I am a member of the Constitution Party of New York and was present at the meeting when our members voted unanimously to endorse Ron Paul for President. I was also present at this rally along with our chairman.

  33. Robert Milnes Says:

    Joe, so?

  34. Richard Winger Says:

    New York state Republican Party ballot access are completely different than they were in 1996 and 2000. Now, anyone discussed in the mass media is automatically put on the New York Republican presidential primary ballot.

  35. Robert Milnes Says:

    Richard, then what was that Ron Paul rally all about?

  36. Preston Says:

    Whoa…you libertarians really think global warming and pollution can be solved by lawsuits?
    Are you serious?
    So I, the individual with a yearly income of about $15,000 am supposed to hire a lawyer and sue every polluting company for like $100? And how am I going to convince the courts that THIS company’s pollution got in my lungs? Pollution is impossible to track over the long run, and its direct effects are unprovable. All we know is that pollution adds up and harms us several different ways. Saying we can solve the pollution problem by lawsuits is like saying we should solve the littering problem by suing every person who litters for like $5. Its ridiculous.
    Some things need oversight—a smaller government is one thing, but don’t be over-idealist.

  37. [email protected] Says:


    Not all libertarians consider tort litigation the only solution to pollution.

    Tom Knapp

  38. G.E. Smith Says:

    Preston - There is a civil component and then there is a criminal component. Polluting your lungs is an act of aggression, and can be dealt with criminally as well as civilly. I refuse to grant the state the right to decide how much aggressive pollution it can dump into my lungs. That’s what regulations are.

  39. G.E. Smith Says:

    Preston - Also, someone who litters on your property has committed a crime against your property. That’s a criminal act of aggression, and it is much simpler to deal with than something more amorphous like air pollution. Bad example. Air pollution is an admittedly difficult issue, but ground pollution is not.

  40. Joe Says:


    My comments were in response to Tom who wrote, “if I was a New York LP or CP member, I’d want to know why my party’s candidates and officials were working to promote a Republican candidate . . .” My point was that we are doing so because our members have insisted upon it.

  41. Robert Milnes Says:

    Joe, did you read Richard Winger’s comment above? What was the rally about? Do you know?

  42. Joe Says:

    Yes, I did read his comment. I think if you watch the video of the rally, Jim Ostrowski explains it pretty well.

  43. Robert Milnes Says:

    Joe, he said they were there to get RP on the RP primary ballot in NY. Richard said no problem. Who is right here?

  44. [email protected] Says:


    Well, I can’t say that I’m unhappy to see the Constitution Party of New York dissolve itself, although I wish its members weren’t going back to the GOP.

    I’m less happy if the New York LP is doing the same thing.

    And both parties should be honest—if they’re going to support the GOP, they should quit pretending to be separate political parties.

    Tom Knapp

  45. Joe Says:


    While this is the first time we’ve endorsed a Republican for President, it really isn’t that much of a stretch for us. New York is a fusion state and we have endorsed selected Republicans for other offices in the past. I believe that is the case for LPNY as well, which has not endorsed Ron to my knowledge.


    To make the GOP cut, a candidate must meet one of the following criteria:
    1) Be eligible for federal matching funds.
    2) Be nationally known.
    3) File designating petitions.

    The Paul camp went the nationally known route, which shouldn’t be too hard to prove, particularly since his star has catapulted since he announced earlier this month that he had raised $5 million in the third quarter and has more cash on-hand than first-tier candidate John McCain.
    State Board of Elections spokesman Bob Brehm confirmed that the board had received Paul’s request and said it’s the only one to arrive so far. Oct. 16 was the first day GOP candidates could file their requests, so Paul was first in line. Dec. 11 is the deadline.

    No official decision has been made yet on whether Paul will get on the ballot. That’s up to the two Republican state elections commissioners: Co-Chair Neil Kelleher and Helena Moses Donohue.

  46. Robert Milnes Says:

    Joe, thank you for your good reply. It almost clears it up. How is it Richard Winger said what he did? Have the rules changed since 2000?

  47. Joe Says:


    Richard will have to answer that. I don’t necessarily see as big a gap between what he has written and what I (ie Jim Ostrowski) has said. The criteria I have outlined is the current criteria. Whether or not getting Ron on the ballot in New York is a gimme or not probably depends on whether you think that it is silly to consider him anything other than a nationally recognized candidate. I certainly do, but that doesn’t mean Kelleher and Donohue do. I went to the rally because I didn’t see how it would hurt, and because Jim Ostrowski, a New York election law attorney whom I respect, insisted that it was extremely important.

  48. PAFreedom Says:

    Both the LP & CP claim statesments such as: principle above politics. This is the one time when they can show they are better than the monolopy parties.

    Dr. Ron Paul has been the exception to the rule on many of our gripes, and we need to get behind the only statesman in the race. Or, we need to change our mottos.

  49. Robert Milnes Says:

    PAFreedom, no, you don’t get it. Ron Paul campaign is in/through the GOP=NEVER AGAIN vote republican.

  50. Trent Hill Says:


    This is your problem. YOU are placing PARTY over principle. Paul has an “R” beside his name—and thus you oppose him. Its moronic.

  51. Jake Porter Says:

    YOU are placing PARTY over principle. Paul has an “R” beside his name—and thus you oppose him. Its moronic.

    Like it or not, America is a two party system. The Libertarian Party should exist to replace the dying Republican Party. I know that the George Phillies 2008 Presidential campaign has been donating money to state organizations for ballot access. Unfortunately, I guess it has been a big secret to some in the national party that we are actually going to have a Presidential candidate in 2008. The Libertarian Party may have serious problems with ballot access in 2008 and supporting Republican candidates is, in my opinion, not a very good decision to build the Libertarian Party.

  52. G.E. Smith Says:

    The Founders did not intend on a two-party system—they feared and conspired against it.

    The Libertarian Party should NOT aim to replace the Republicans, but to end the two-party system, which has led to the big-government mess that we have. It is a corrupt system, and any party seeking to supplant an existing party will quickly become corrupted by it.

  53. Jake Porter Says:

    If ending political parties actually worked I would support it; however, people will choose to have political organizations to achieve their political goals.

  54. Estelle Edwards Says:

    I am sooooooo tired of the ‘who’s a real libertarian’ argument. It’s another example of these ‘purist’ squabbles diverting us from the ultimate goal of moving the government back towards Constitutional order. Okay, a lot of libs won’t settle for anyone but a libertarian. But I ask you: what libertarian has all the components of name recognition, experience in Congress, a proven voting track record that is consistent and is well-respected? I’m not defecting to the Republican Party, and I doubt that a lot of libertarians will. Switching so I can vote in the primary is just a strategy. After the hoopla is over, regardless of the outcome, I will change my affiliation back to libertarian. We have to play the cards dealt to us to help Ron Paul, and those cards have to do with the ballot laws in New York State. Before Ron Paul came along, I never voted in a primary. He is also the first presidential candidate I ever donated money to! Back when I was still a naieve liberal Democrat, even though I liked Clinton at the time, I didn’t donate money to him. So that tells you something about Ron Paul.
    Anyway, let’s just see how the guy does. If he doesn’t get the nomination, we can focus on the libertarian candidate who is the next best option. If that makes me a traitor to the cause….....oh well.

  55. Robert Milnes Says:

    Estelle Edwards, unfortunately, you have engaged this debate at what appears to be its end. At the other end, bumping this further back, is BYU for Ron Paul. Perhaps you could clarify Richard Winger’s comment. If he is correct, one would think a rally would be unnecessary. But maybe have one for some other reason. I must admit there has been a lot of publicity for Ron Paul. “After the hoopla is over…” hopefully (from my perspective as a neglected LP pres. candidate) will be Super Duper Tuesday. But, Paul could drag it out like Alan Keyes did & yes, pick up a few delegates, through to the convention. Meanwhile what are we (neglected LP pres. candidates) supposed to do?/// I’d like to suggest some alternative to blogging here on this issue. Ironically Austin is a republican & we are availing ourselves of his largess here. How about moving this debate to your campaign blog? I am in the process of getting a blog format going on my website or a separate blog.

  56. [email protected] Says:

    Quoth Estelle Edwards:

    “I’m not defecting to the Republican Party, and I doubt that a lot of libertarians will. Switching so I can vote in the primary is just a strategy.”

    “I don’t really mean it—I’m just fraudulently representing myself as a member of the Republican Party so that I can manipulate its internal affairs” isn’t exactly the most morally inspiring argument. You might want to find a better one.

  57. Estelle Edwards Says:

    Okay, so it’s not a moral enough argument to do something like that because we want to support somebody who would be truly good for the country instead of handing it over to one of the other neocon, big government, socialist candidates. Is that your point? I can see why people get fed up with the Libertarian Party and quit.

  58. Robert Milnes Says:

    Estelle, my complaint is more one of practicality than morality. When Ron Paul gets 72% of libertarian support, the other 28% are left out of his one man “Revolution”. It just won’t last. It is very divisive. Yet I have to admit he has accomplished SOMETHING. I’d like to see this discussion continue somewhere else. How about your blog?

  59. [email protected] Says:


    It’s a simple matter of honesty—but also one of practicality.

    When you register as a Republican, you’re telling the Republican Party, the state of New York, and the voter registrar, “I am a Republican.”

    But over here, you’re saying “not really—I’m just posing as a Republican so that I can influence the Republican Party’s choice of presidential nominee.”

    The purpose of a party primary or caucus is to ensure that a candidate is selected who is representative of the desires of that party’s members and supporters.

    On the practical side, if you want to start playing dishonest and fraudulent games with that process, you’ll have no grounds to complain if 100 recently-joined “Libertarians” arrive at the next LPNY convention, fresh from their recent GOP committee meetings, to nominate Paul Wolfowitz for US Senate on the LP ticket. And don’t think it couldn’t happen—hell, the major party presidential candidates will probably spend somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion bucks this time around, and the national LP’s nomination process could probably be bought outright—find some shills, pay some dues, pack the convention—for a mere half a million to a million bucks. Do you think THEY are above doing such a thing? Why expect them to be or complain that they’re not if WE aren’t?

  60. Eric Sundwall Says:


    One registers to vote in NY and enrolls in a party. In NY the Libertarian Party has no official capacity, a court ruling in 2003 made it possible for Greens and Libertarians to fill in a blank line with either of those designations. Enrolling LP and joining the LPNY are entirely seperate matters.

    There are many members of the LPNY who are enrolled in other parties for the sake of influencing those parties. It’s ineffective and unnoticed for the most part. The LPNY bylaws are sufficiently written not to have any surprise guests on the day of the convention. One must join by the preceding December. If a take over attempt were to be tried, the StateCom would have ample notice.

    Party ‘colonization’ in NY is more common within parties that have ballot access. Thus you always have Dems and Repubs seeking to take over the Independence Party. The Conservative Party is pretty much a wing of the GOP as the Working Families Party is the Dems. Unfortunately the LPNY is simply considered a quirky fringe element in an otherwise red and blue game.

    I attended that rally too. I choose not to speak for precisely the backlash that has ensued here. I was able to quietly network and urge RP followers to consider the LP when this parade ends. I’ve also been a fan of Jim Ostrowski for years and had an opportunity to interview him for a local show that we produce. The greater point that Estelle Edwards made was that the message of freedom and liberty is not confined to quirky middle age white guys. Mr. Deitz also made a plea for Congressional candidates in the next cycle.

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