Illegal Aliens

How would Libertarians, Greens, Socialists, or Constitution Party activists react to their city councils and county commissioners enacting ordinances and laws to restrict illegal aliens from renting apartments or houses?

That debate was pounded last night on Libertarian Politics Live!

What do you guys think? It’s an issue splitting every third party, and major party.

51 Responses to “Illegal Aliens”

  1. matt Says:

    Is it really splitting the CP? The Greens? Evidence please.

  2. Anthony Distler Says:

    I don’t know if it’s splitting third parties, but it is a pretty big issue for sure.

    While I think the paleo’s are too extreme on immigration, I would not have a problem if my city council enacted such an ordinance. I think something does need to be done about illegal immigration, and while waving big red flags and going after every Mexican is the wrong thing to do, you also can’t allow everybody to just wonder into the country unanounced. I think saying that an illegal immigrant is not allowed to rent an apartment or buy a house in a certain city is fair. It’s also fair to punish businesses and corperations who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

  3. disinter Says:

    What a bunch of racists. I hope the landlords go broke.

  4. Jay Matthews Says:

    Racists??? Illegal immigrants are not a race of people. They’re a group of people knowingly subverting the law.

  5. Tom Kovach Says:

    Left-wing definition of “racist”: anyone that disagrees with them.

    Typical tactic of Communist agitators: “I hope you go broke”. (Invoking class envy, because it worked on them….)

    Anyone that believes in “open borders” should back up that belief by having at least a dozen illegal aliens live in their house for free. (After all, you want them to come live in our country for free, and have us pay for it with our tax dollars. Put your money where your mouth is. Then, let’s see how long you still think that way after they make YOUR bathroom look like the ones at Wal-Mart.) Here’s the REAL reason that Left-wingers support open borders: to weaken America, so that the Communists can take over. (Starting with the Progressive Caucus—the Communist members of our own Congress. If you don’t believe me, check it out for yourself.)

    Limbaugh’s definition of a “liberal”: someone that is very generous … with OTHER people’s money!

    For those that try to use the religious argument to favor open borders, you really need to read the book of Nehemiah. God commanded the people of Jerusalem to rebuild the wall with a shovel in one hand and a SWORD in the other! If that doesn’t convince you, go back and read Exodus. God valued border security so much that He told the Israelites to GO AROUND the land of Edom, because the Edomites denied permission to enter their land. (Of course, He also later smote the Edomites for not allowing the Israelites to have water. But, the illegal aliens are not coming here for only a supply of water, as the Iraelites wanted at Edom.)

    If you think that the above points make sense, then you should listen to my new talk show, the “US Phone Force”. Go to my Web site for details.

  6. disinter Says:

    What a bunch of bigots.

  7. disinter Says:

    They’re a group of people knowingly subverting the law.

    They are a group of people attempting to make a better life for themselves. The horror!

    They are subverting the law because the racist law has become so arduous that there is no other way.

    After all, you want them to come live in our country for free, and have us pay for it with our tax dollars.

    If you don’t want to “pay” for them, then get rid of whatever socialized benefits you claim they are receiving. If your false argument is true, then once you remove “free” stuff, they won’t be coming anymore.

  8. Jay Matthews Says:

    “They are subverting the law because the racist law has become so arduous that there is no other way.”

    Apparently the laws are not so arduous for those who want to play by the rules and emigrate here in the proper manner,................lawfully.

    And please prove how the current immigration laws are racist.

  9. Tom Bryant Says:

    It will run you about $5000-$10,000 to emigrate to the United States in the proper manner. Has anyone here been through, or knows someone, who has emigrated here legally and is happy about the process?

    My knowledge is limited to a handful of people. Two went through the legal process, and after spending thousands of dollars, gave up. They ended up going to Ohio to get married (Ohio, at least at the time, didn’t require proof of citizenship before marrying individuals). These were Canadian professionals as well.

  10. Citizens For A Better Veterans Home[s] Says:

    ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL immigrants!

  11. matt Says:

    I am not needed here. Disinter is saying what needs to be said.

    The people who are so concerned about the browning of the USA would be better served focusing their energies on keeping it from turning red, as in red ink, and as in the communist platform.

    Tom, I eagerly await ANY legitimate comparisons between the city of Jerusalem in Bible times and today’s southern border. America is not Israel, nor can it ever be. Pretending otherwise will get us theocracy and apostasy, respectively. Count me out.

  12. matt Says:

    PS: In HEALTHY Christian theology, the Church is Israel. If you’d like to build a wall around your Church building you are free to do so.

  13. Anthony Distler Says:

    Tom Kovach’s defination of a Communist - anyone who disagrees with him.

  14. matt Says:

    My definition? People who agree with Tom Kovachs about building walls around their countries.

    I kid, I kid.

  15. Devin Ray Freeman Says:

    Tom Bryant,
    My wife. She’s got a green card, and to get it, even being married to me, it was one long flaming hoop jump, let me tell ya. And still they make me feel like I’m a criminal at the airport even doing everything right.

    Yup, it’s a big non-concensus issue for the Lib Party, along with abortion and what tax is fair. I see both sides to the illegal alien argument, and take no hard line on it personally, but looking at the big picture overall, I conclude vote Ron Paul.

  16. Jason Gatties Says:

    “It will run you about $5000-$10,000 to emigrate to the United States in the proper manner. Has anyone here been through, or knows someone, who has emigrated here legally and is happy about the process?”

    Yes, I went through the process with my wife. It cost us around $2000 but she came here from England. Basically the wait period varies depending on what country they are from and thus the expense varies.

    Once we began the process, it took 9 months in order to get her over here on a marriage visa. After that, took us roughly 2 years to get perm. resident status (green card). We now have to wait another 3 years before she can apply for citizenship, if we choose to do that.

    Outside of the financial burden, there is alot of mental stress as well when it comes to immigration. It really tested our relationship. Sure it would have been easier to fall in love with someone who already lives here, but I met her while she was visiting the US for 6 months and when she had to go back, I made a couple trips to England and then we began the process once we were engaged.

    We have been married now for 3 1/2 years.

    The process needs to be revamped and streamlined. If the cost involved was less, then people would come to this country legally rather than hopping a fence.

  17. Devin Ray Freeman Says:

    Yeah. What Jason said. It puts your life on hold for years.

    Streamline! Let people do what it takes to make good things happen. Had it not been for the good streak of streamlining that occurred a few years ago in my county, I would probably still be trying to adopt my daughter.

    Jason,
    two grand? that’s it? nice.

  18. [email protected] Says:

    I’m an open borders guy, but that notwithstanding …

    ... at the legislation/ordinance level, this ISN’T ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

    What it’s about is whether government should force landlords, employers, etc. to act as unpaid law enforcement agents.

    Under these ordinances, it isn’t the illegal immigrant who gets tagged with fines and such for renting an apartment or having a job (although, of course, he has his own legal problems at that point)—it’s the landlord or employer who gets tagged with fines and such for not acting as an unpaid agent of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

    This is worse than Nazi Germany—at least there, it was some asshole in a uniform, drawing a government paycheck, who walked up and down the train yelling “ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORRRRDER?” Here, the Know-Nothings want to draft EVERYONE for the job, not pay them, and fine them if they don’t do it satisfactorily.

  19. Jackcjackson Says:

    If I am a landlord I should not be expected to act as a law enforcement or immigration agent. If I feel comfortable renting to someone, I should be free to do so.

    It’s bad enough that in many towns discrimination against natural born citizens is REQUIRED. In some towns where I have lived, it is against the law to rent to unmarried couples, college students, friends, single parents, more than 2 people in a 5 bedroom house, etc. I feel the same way about this. I should be able to rent to any nationality, marital status ( why would I know/care), immigration status ( see marital status),etc. Al of these statuses of people are really not anyone’s business. Voluntary discrimination is one thing, state mandated discrimination is evil. Maybe it’s law enforcement’s business- but its not the business of landlords, employers,etc.

    I am not an unpaid agent for ICE, FBI. IRS, ATF, or any other of these thugs ( and I’m also not going to snitch on my neighbors or get involved in any consensual private matters).

  20. Jackcjackson Says:

    I think Knapp and I were thinking along the same lines at the same time.

  21. Carl Says:

    Compare today’s process with the old process of travelling across the Atlantic in a disease-ridden leaky boat, with a term of indentured servitude to follow.

    Having some barriers to entry helps find out those who really want to be Americans.

    As for bigotry, try this formula: the U.S. accepts 3 times as many immigrants from as emigrants to any nation.

  22. Kris Overstreet Says:

    No, Carl, barriers don’t help find those who really want to be Americans; it finds those WEALTHY enough that our leaders will CONDESCEND to ALLOW them to be Americans.

    Immigration laws have always been designed to screen out the impoverished and the undesirable races (whatever races were undesirable at the time).

    Finally, Carl, the fact that what others do is worse does not make what you do good. Evil is not comparative.

  23. [email protected] Says:

    Carl,

    You write:

    “Compare today’s process with the old process of travelling across the Atlantic in a disease-ridden leaky boat, with a term of indentured servitude to follow.”

    OK —let’s!

    GWEN IFILL: Western immigration officials estimate that Chinese stowaways often pay up to $70,000 each for such journeys. Experts say human smuggling grosses $10 billion a year for the international crime gangs who sneak people into affluent countries—countries like Britain, Germany, and the United States, where illegal immigration is on the rise. In 1993, one ship dumped 240 illegal refugees from ShipFujian Province at the foot of the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, then sailed back into international waters. A few months later, a freighter, the “Golden Venture,” ran aground near New York City. The almost 300 Chinese stowaways on board had spent 114 days at sea. Too often, the stowaways risk life and limb to make their dangerous journeys. In January, 15 Chinese men emerged from a metal cargo container after the Cape May freighter docked in Seattle. Three more were found dead inside.

    MELVIN AUSTIN: The ones that came out of that container were in bad shape. Seven of the fifteen that survived had to be hospitalized to get them back to good health. The other eight did come in here, but they also were dehydrated. They needed to be… you know, they needed good nourishment, they needed plenty of fluids.

    [snip]

    GWEN IFILL: So, Mr. Papademetriou, these immigrants, stowaways, slaves come here, and they finally have a chance to get what they think they want, and then they owe thousands—tens of thousands of dollars to the people who brought them here. How do they pay them off?

    Demetrios PapademetriouDEMETRIOS PAPADEMETRIOU: By becoming, effectively, indentured servants.

    [Source: Online NewsHour, June 20th, 2000

    Um … you were saying?

  24. Tom Bryant Says:

    Maybe if the process was streamlined, folks wouldn’t pay $70,000 to come in here illegally.

    It seems that anyone who hasn’t dealt with immigration seems to think that our process works fine, and illegals are coming over here just for the sport of breaking one of our laws.

    The system is designed to prevent people from coming here legally. Hence the “problem” of illegal immigration.

  25. G.E. Smith the Capitalist Dove Says:

    I say we deport all Know-Nothings and change the natioanl language to Esperanto.

  26. Jay Matthews Says:

    Tom, the process is what it is. Give me a reason why the requirements should be reduced. (Or eliminated if that is your stance.)

    Also what obligation does the U.S., or any other country for that matter, have to people who MAY want to emigrate there? I don’t see how potential immigrants / non-citizens of a given country are owed anything.

  27. Joseph Knight Says:

    The beacon of common sense and applied libertariansim here is ….... Tom Knapp. Now THAT’S scary.

  28. G.E. Smith the Capitalist Dove Says:

    Jay Matthews - Ever heard of the free market? Fucking commie.

  29. Tom Blanton Says:

    Mr. Knapp and Mr. Jackson are correct.

    The cost of a green card just went up to $1,000 and the FBI is proposing a program to recruit citizen informants. That localities are jumping on the STASI bandwagon demonstrates the effect the shrill hysterical bigots are having on politicians and it will come to no good.

    Far better to have open borders than a police state - or do we already have one?

  30. Jay Matthews Says:

    I’ll ask the question again, why should a country, any country, feel obligated to give citizenship to whoever wants to live there with few if any requirements?

    Tom B., you are correct, the police state is here. There’s a lot of room however between open borders and a police state.

    Smith, ever hear of the rule of law? If you have should illegal aliens not be subject to it like those wanting to come here legally or are they somehow above the law?

  31. disinter Says:

    I’ll ask the question again, why should a country, any country, feel obligated to give citizenship to whoever wants to live there with few if any requirements?

    Good question. Why did the U.S. let your ancestors in?

    Smith, ever hear of the rule of law?

    Jay, just because a law was created by a bunch of buffoons and signed by some idiot in the White House doesn’t mean that law is just, necessary or respects natural rights.

  32. Jeremy Brannon Says:

    In all honesty, the Socialist Party USA is not splitting over immigration, we are all staunchly pro-humanity. Many socialists see the problem as being with the free trade agreements, such as NAFTA. When enacted, NAFTA caused cheap farm products from the USA to be sold en masse to the Mexican people. This resulted in financial difficulties for their own farmers, and, just as happened with America, the former farmers moved to the cities. Many idustries left the US or expanded into Mexico because of the cheaper labor, thus providing some jobs. But not long thereafter the American capitalists began to notice Asian labor as being even cheaper than in Mexico. So they packed up and left, leaving possibly millions without jobs and destroying their agricultural system. So is it any wonder that so many Latin Americans are trying to come to the US for a better life for themselves and their families? Is it easy to raise a family on a dollar a day?

    So, though I may not agree with many that immediate legalization is the best option, that would just cause labor prices to fall and produce a decreased standard of living for many americans. Instead, I think that anti-layoff bills (for the massive corporations that always seem to opt for cheaper labor) and removing the Latin American quotas, as well as assisting economic development via cooperatives and ESOP organizations for struggling latin american nations. And yes, definitely a streamlined process of immigration and legalization.

  33. Jeremy Brannon Says:

    Oh, and as far as I know, the Green local here in Fannin Co. Texas is pro-immigrant and pro-worker, as is virtually everyone and the program in and of that party.

  34. Jay Matthews Says:

    Disinter, try addressing the question I posed with an answer instead of a question and instead of labeling people “racists” and “bigots.”

    Hypothetically, if you were to emigrate elsewhere why should that country make citizenship easy to attain? What do they owe you besides an opportunity to become a citizen under their immigration laws?

    “Jay, just because a law was created by a bunch of buffoons and signed by some idiot in the White House doesn’t mean that law is just, necessary or respects natural rights.”

    I agree. It’s one thing to suggest laws should be changed. It’s another to suggest they should be ignored, subverted, and the authorities should look the other way.

    If you’re a pro-amnesty person such a move is a slap in the face to those trying to do the right thing and emigrate in a lawful manner. (As well as those who already have emigrated in a lawful manner.)

  35. Cody Quirk Says:

    They are a group of people attempting to make a better life for themselves. The horror!

    =Not all come here to make a better life- many come for the free benifits like welfare and the jobs, many come to avoid being tried for whatever crimes they’ve committed, some come to see America eventually be split apart and return a piece to Mexico or make it a new nation. Worse yet, some come here to commit terrorist acts in the name of their religion! Like the 911 hijackers, or the attempted bombing of Fort Dix.

    =Yeah, it’s no question that the US Immigrant system has become bueaucratic and confusing and perhaps does need to be straightened out- but only those that want to work here on a perminant basis, can assimilate with American culture and positively contribute to our nation’s society should be allowed citizenship. Others that simply come to work and leave back to their country, or take avantage of our welfare system, or to advance a dangerous political agenda, committ crimes or even terrorists acts need to be thrown out of our country from a big sling-shot

    (sigh!) if only it was that simple:(

    Nevertheless the CP is not divided on this!

    The political party that is divided, is…..

    THE GOP!

  36. Nigel Watt Says:

    1. Stop subsidizing immigration
    2. Get the military out of other countries and put them on the borders
    3. Let in peaceful people.

    I’m very disturbed with the number of people in this thread who say “BUT THEY’RE BREAKING THE LAW!” What, exactly, is the law? What moral authority does the law have? CP folks, if there were a law passed in your state mandating abortions for those the state determined were financially incapable of caring for their children, would you excoriate Christians birthing their babies at home to avoid that law because “THEY’RE BREAKING THE LAW”, or would you applaud them?

    Laws are nothing more than rules set up by people who don’t give a shit about you or what’s right. I do what’s right, not what the law tells me to do.

  37. Jay Matthews Says:

    Nigel, you should have stopped at #3. The red herring and attempt at sounding like a bad-ass are laughable.

  38. disinter Says:

    Nigel - well said.

  39. disinter Says:

    It’s one thing to suggest laws should be changed. It’s another to suggest they should be ignored, subverted, and the authorities should look the other way.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if everyone obeyed every law there would be no need or incentive to challenge a law. Therefore the Judicial Branch and it’s role in checks and balances would be void.

  40. Jeremy Brannon Says:

    Disinter, I think we would all be mindless drones subject to the will of a ruling class were that to happen. Some laws should be changed, such as party ballot access laws, because they are simply discriminatory or seek to put down another party (political and people).

    I think Nigel should be thanked for his comments on this subject.

  41. Jay Matthews Says:

    Disinter, see my posts from yesterday. I look forward to your response if any and not in the form of other questions.

    In the meantime your condoning of illegal immigration and “we owe them amnesty” attitude will continue to be bizarre, especially for someone whose website is loaded with Ron Paul-related news. A candidate also against amnesty.

    “Correct me if I am wrong, but if everyone obeyed every law there would be no need or incentive to challenge a law.”

    You’re wrong. That aside since there are millions of illegals here your rationale is “well they’re here, let’s take it easy on them” instead of insisting the current laws should be enforced.

    On a side note, if one accepts the official 9/11 story about 19 hijackers with exacto-blades etc., it would stand to reason one would want immigration laws enforced if not made more stringent. Otherwise the argument is even more flawed.

  42. Kris Overstreet Says:

    Jay: There was a great king, Knut, who ruled Denmark, then conquered Norway and England.

    Legend has it that, one day when the toadies of his court told him how great he was one too many times, he took his court to the seashore at low tide, walked out to the edge of the surf, and commanded the tide not to come in.

    His feet got wet anyway, proving his point: some things are just not controllable by a king, or by a government.

    The immigrants are a tide, and they are unstoppable. We can waste a lot of money damming the tide, we can give up vital liberties in a futile attempt to bail out the water… or else we can accept the facts and use that tide to our advantage.

    (And also, let us not forget, this is a HUMAN tide. Every person there is an individual with rights and with the desire for a better life. Water in a bucket has no rights to violate, but a peaceful human being seeking nothing more than to get himself and his family out of poverty does have rights. Violations of those rights are a moral stain on our nation- our IMMIGRANT nation.)

  43. Jay Matthews Says:

    Kris, I understand and respect where you are coming from but it’s rewarding people who are trying to beat the process. If you reward the wrong thing why should future immigrants try to do the right thing and respect immigration laws. This is my point. It’s an insult to those trying to come here in a proper, lawful manner. Not to mention the freebies illegals get when they come here. RP is dead-on, if the U.S. continues to reward illegals with free healthcare, education, etc with Americans paying the tab they’ll continue to come here. Take the freebies away the incentive is much less.

    I agree illegal immigration is not 100% stoppable but c’mon, there’s lots of room for improvement. Bush is more concerned with the Syria/Iraq/Iran borders than our own.

    I also don’t understand the “we owe them” sentiment here. News flash: this country doesn’t owe anyone easy citizenship any more than another country owes Americans emigrating there easy citizenship. I’m not suggesting it should be hard, I’m saying the laws are what they are. Want to lobby your senators and congressman to try to change them, well fine.

    And I don’t buy the “they do jobs Americans won’t” argument. Pay someone a decent wage and people will do anything no matter how mundane and/or disgusting.

  44. Kris Overstreet Says:

    Jay: in 1882 Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, making it effectively illegal for any Chinese person to become a US citizen. Later on, in the twentieth century, there was the infamous “Gentlemen’s Agreement” with China and Japan, which effectively banned those countries’ citizens from emigrating to the USA- without any actual law on the US side to challenge in court.

    Leaving aside the fact that these actions were racist and unjust, they did not work. Chinese and Japanese continued to enter the USA, legally or not, by the thousands.

    They came here for the same reason so many Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Columbians, etc. etc. etc. come here today. Hint: it’s NOT free health care. Illegal immigrants use less emergency-room care than impoverished American citizens, for fear of discovery and deportation. Second hint: it’s NOT free education- the majority of illegal immigrants come alone, leaving their families at home, in nations which ALSO promise free education to all their children.

    They come here because life as the scum of the earth in the USA, making one-quarter what we call our minimum wage, living in terror that they will be imprisoned or (thinking our cops are like theirs) beaten and tortured if caught, all of this is a MUCH better life than what they have at home.

    Remember: the “poverty line” in the USA is higher than the gross domestic product per capita of any Latin American country. That means being officially poor in the USA would make you middle class- UPPER middle class- in most of the rest of the hemisphere.

    The only way you’re going to stop people moving from that level of poverty to our level of affluence is to withdraw our army from Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, and everyplace else, split them into three shifts, and line them up- one person every seventy yards or so- along the Mexican border…

    ... and murder everyone who tries to cross.

    Oh, and you’d have to shut down the border completely- no imports, no exports, no tourism- because over half the illegal immigrants we have came here LEGALLY.

    So no, you’re not going to stop them. You’ll hardly even slow them down.

    And as far as trying to obey the law… when it costs thousands of dollars most of these people don’t have in the first place and can take as much as ten years just to get legal residency, never mind citizenship, and legal residency does NOT include the right to work, and on top of all that there are quotas limiting the number of people even allowed to APPLY

    ... when it’s impossible to obey the law, people are going to break it.

    Don’t tell me about respecting the process; the process is RIGGED.

    And it’s specifically rigged against the poor and the Latino.

    Oh, one final, minor note. Recently a cabbage grower decided to try using all-white, all-US labor for his California fields. He couldn’t do it. The few workers he got quit within a week, and most refused to do it at all for less than ten dollars an hour.

    That’d be some pretty expensive cabbage.

  45. disinter Says:

    In the meantime your condoning of illegal immigration and “we owe them amnesty” attitude will continue to be bizarre

    I apologize if you can’t read, or comprehend what you read. The public school system must really be degrading faster than I thought.

    What is bizarre is you have decided that I believe what I have never said I believe. Tell me, where/when have I advocated amnesty, or illegal immigration for that matter?

    You’re wrong.

    How so? How would the laws ever be challenged?

    On a side note, if one accepts the official 9/11 story about 19 hijackers with exacto-blades etc., it would stand to reason one would want immigration laws enforced if not made more stringent.

    Well, if you believe the “official” story, then yes, I can understand why you are dumb enough to be so emotional about an issue (immigration) that was manufactured so that drones like you could have something to be distracted with.

  46. Jay Matthews Says:

    Kris,

    Emergency room care,........are you serious? How many emergencies room visits does anyone need in a lifetime illegal or not? Not to mention the number of low-income Americans exceeds the number or illegals. Again a flawed argument.

    Children of illegals DO get free education whether they come here individually or not. If you’re going to say they don’t you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Let’s not forget medicaid, social security benefits, avoiding income taxes, and other forms of public assistance.

    It’s not impossible to obey the law. People are doing it now and have for decades. You want to say it’s not affordable for many, fine, but where’s the obligation to cater to some who cannot afford it. The poor? If one is poor any cost short of free can be seen as too much. Did Central America save the U.S. from nazi rule? Guess I was out sick that day. Again I’ll ask, where is this “we owe them” sentiment coming from? Why should illegals go to the front of the line and just be handed citizenship?

    And what’s the problem with putting armed personnel on the border?

    In any event, we’ll agree to disagree.

  47. Jay Matthews Says:

    Disinter, your previous posts have a tone of condoning illegals. Go back and read them starting with the third one from the top. You know, the one where you start calling people racists.

    Any law can be challenged regardless of how much it may or may not be observed.

    The 9/11 comment wasn’t for yourself but more generally for those who buy the entire official account (not myself) and still think immigration laws should be fewer, less stringent, and not enforced.

  48. disinter Says:

    Jay - no, the tone was condemning racist laws. Try reading again.

  49. Jay Matthews Says:

    Try knowing proper use of words before posting messages. “Racists” and “bigots” are people, not laws.

    That aside, you’re calling immigration laws arduous attempting to make excuses for illegals. Therefore condoning illegals.

    “They are a group of people attempting to make a better life for themselves. The horror!

    They are subverting the law because the racist law has become so arduous that there is no other way.”

  50. Curious Says:

    some one came on a student visa into USA. after few years could not afford to pay international fees and dropped out. His student visa was cancelled. For few years he is just living with friends and illegal.

    What are the consquences——————-if he marries to a citizen?

    Please respond only if you are aware of immigration laws.

  51. boatmailsite Says:

    tree mail black white dog tom

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