LibertyMix & HoT: What Happened?

Still no word on Hammer of Truth or LibertyMix. Did the people who helped run Michael Badnarik’s 2006 congressional debacle (the $400,000 for 4% race) run off with the plans and $10,000 needed for a HoT revamp?

Did people forget about this? Maybe it’s time we start reminding folks that well, we haven’t forgotten…

37 Responses to “LibertyMix & HoT: What Happened?”

  1. Jason Gatties Says:

    Please don’t. It’s been whined about enough already.

  2. Trent Hill Says:

    Oh jeeze…

  3. globalist_elitist Says:

    Gatties - Whatever. People have a right to be upset. If you don’t like the “whining,” then avoid this thread. No one is coming into your living room and forcing you to listen to them. No one is forcing you to read this thread.

  4. Austin Cassidy Says:

  5. Meg Says:

    At the risk of sounding like a whiner…

    I have noticed that LP.org, which employs one of the masterminds behind LibertyMix, censors any mention of the word LibertyMix as “spam”.

    Here’s a little roundup I wrote, “LibertyMix: One Year Later“. Actually, it’s like a year and a half now, and almost 5 months since the last update on the site.

  6. Nigel Watt Says:

    That’s $50 of my money I don’t expect to see anytime soon.

  7. globalist_elitist Says:

    “It was only like $10 from a bunch of people. You’ll never miss $10.”

    This is why it’s good that we have class action lawsuits.

    Scaming $10 off 1000 people is just as bad as scamming $10,000 off of one.

    People have a right to be mad; not about the $10 or $50 that they had stolen from them, but about the absolute injustice of a welfare loser like SVD making two months pay off of the donations of good-intentioned libertarians.

    SVD: SUCK A FAT DICK, YOU LAZY LOSER BITCH.

  8. Cody Quirk Says:

    Well, you guys got Third Party Watch, right?

  9. Trent Hill Says:

    Btw: Kent McManigal quit the LP race…in case anyone cared.

  10. globalist_elitist Says:

    That’s why I donated $50 to Austin’s campaign, even though he’s a Republican. And I didn’t donate a dime to that dipshit, SVD.

  11. globalist_elitist Says:

    Who is Kent McManigal?

  12. Trent Hill Says:

    Exactly.

  13. matt Says:

    McManigal is a cool western liberty type. He writes essays about liberty and has a very back-to-nature lifestyle from all indications. I don’t know if I’d support him if he were still running for President, but he’d certainly win if he were running for Awesome.

  14. Tom Gellhaus Says:

    Hey just because not everyone lost a lot of money does NOT mean we are not entitled to be pissed off.
    As I understand it, promises were made. Money was asked for, and received, for a “cool new site”. Which went where? up in smoke AFAIK.

    My own loss is simply some of the links that HoT had. They had 2 sets, and I don’t think I kept many of them, because that ONE site being bookmarked gave me access to a lot more. I certainly didn’t expect them to just drop out of sight for good.

    I’ve said before that I don’t know why they cannot at least put up a placeholder with the old links, with a caution saying “these links are only good as of ../../.. date. ”

    Those libertarians who would like an explanation are entitled to it. They are not being whiners…Fraud is just as bad as use of force. Either way, you diverted money or time where you may not have wanted to if the REAL situation was explained to you.

    My sympathies to those who in GOOD FAITH put money into the project.
    I found HoT sometime last fall and really loved it. It was one of the first libertarian sites I found. I’ve been a libertarian for 20 years but haven’t really done much. I want to change that. I thought HoT was a great place to start.

  15. Sean Haugh Says:

    Since I work with Steve Gordon, I talk with him about this from time to time, and I have also talked with Stuart Richards fairly recently about HoT. Both of them and everybody else formerly associated with HoT have put a fair amount of distance between themselves and SVD. As far as I know, only SVD collected and kept the money. I can only speculate why lp.org would keep the topic off their site, but I can think of one or two good reasons off the top of my head why I would do that, such as not wanting to advance a dispute within the libertarian community that has nothing to do with the LP.

    This should be a lesson to Mr. Hacker. If it weren’t for his insanely hypersentive and quite extensive blog posts, we might could see him and his candidate as victims of a hypocritical crusader here. Unfortunately Hacker produced enough material out of his own fingers to damn him with no reference to anyone else. I don’t get into it with critics of Candidate Tracker on blogs for exactly this reason. It takes away from doing the job and gives me opportunities to look like, well, an insanely hypersenstive bloviator too. He should’ve just kept his damn fingers off the keyboard.

    Back to my original point, if you ask anyone other than SVD from the old HoT days about LibertyMix, you will find that they are just as in the dark and angry and/or cynical about it as anyone else. Some of them were investors too, and most all of them invested time and talent that disappeared into the same black hole.

    Thank you Austin for not letting this story go. As someone who also engaged in muckraking journalism (I wear the label proudly) and asked people to give me money to support my work when I was covering the LNC for Liberty For All, I know just how important it is to honor your donors by giving them what they paid for, and conversely how much a blow to my credibility it would be if I didn’t. It’s nice to stand for all the right things, but if you don’t do it the right way, or worse do exactly the things you harshly accuse others of doing, no matter the scale, you deserve no quarter. It’s not about the amount of money, it’s about theft and hypocrisy. I’ll take back the T-word as soon as everybody’s refund checks clear the bank.

  16. globalist_elitist Says:

    Back to nature? More like back to mass poverty. F all that noize.

    Tom and Sean are right on the money.

  17. globalist_elitist Says:

    What SVD needs to do is come out and say, “Look, I fucked up. I blew through the money and there isn’t going to be a LibertyMix. Sorry.”

    I think most people would be at least partially satisfied with that. Businesses fail. HoT/LM wasn’t really a business, but close enough.

    The real problem is that the dude has never taken responsibility. Libertarianism is about personal responsibility. SVD is behaving like a welfare statist.

  18. matt Says:

    Not quite, at least it wasn’t a crime to not donate.

  19. Andy Says:

    “matt Says:

    May 5th, 2007 at 10:11 am
    McManigal is a cool western liberty type.”

    He’s actually lives in Pennsylvania.

  20. Meg Says:

    Here’s an idea, file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Anyone who donated even one penny to the LibertyMix project should do this.

    Here is the information you should use when filing your complaint:

    LibertyMix Media
    2100 Lewis Drive
    Lakewood, OH 44107
    216-221-2671

    Here is the link.

  21. globalist_elitist Says:

    New theory: SVD = Allen Hacker = Wayne Allyn Root. Evidence is presented in the W.A.R. thread.

  22. Trent Hill Says:

    Ohk. So, random topic. Serenity is the greatest movie of all time.
    Main character=HUGE Libertarian.

  23. globalist_elitist Says:

    Well, I wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s the “greatest movie of all time,” but it is a good one. It is very pro-free trade, too. And pro-immigration.

    So why do you like it?

    Also, you do realize that the same people behind it were behind Buffy the Vempire Slayer and Angel? If your CP superiors knew you were watching a committed atheist’s (Josh Weedon) “Satanic” propaganda, they would probably treat you like Matthew Shepherd.

  24. Trent Hill Says:

    GE,

    It isn’t really pro or anti immigration. I’d like to hear where you got that from. I could be wrong.
    It also isn’t that pro-free trade, as the only “free-trade” that happens is the smuggling. Which Malcolm Reynolds even admits (puts us at an unfair advantage,dont it?)
    I like it because it is the story of a man fighting against big government. Fighting for home rule. And eventually fighting for his faith, not neccesarily religion—but faith in something (that something being small government/anti-alliance).
    Also, its funny—hehe.

    Yes, I know who Joss Whedon is—I’v met him. Wasn’t big on Buffy or Angel, but not because it was “Satanic propoganda”. I just thought the storylines sucked and the acting wreacked.

    As for Joss Whedon being athiest. He has stated so on multiple occasions—but actually seems more existentialist to me. He has also admitted to being an absurdist more recently, which isn’t quite the same. It acknowledges there very well COULD be a God, just that it cannot be proven or disproven (it also calls the notion absurd:Thus the name).
    Joss is a GENIUS artist as far as im concerned. His work on Serenity and Firefly are BRILLIANT and I suggest them to anyone—regardless of party afilliation.

  25. globalist_elitist Says:

    I agree that Buffy and Angel suck. My wife is obsessed with them. Every moment that I am wasting away on TPW, she is re-watching Buffy with commentary for the 10000th time.

    I also think Joss Wheedon is a major dork with a HUGE ego. I think he doesn’t believe in god because he thinks he is god himself. Don’t encourage him. I can’t stand Joss Wheedon, but Firefly and Serenity are great, nonetheless.

    I like the movie/show for the same reasons you do. I don’t think “faith” plays a part at all. “Conviction” is different from “faith.” Faith is for people who are divorced from reality. Conviction is for people who are principled.

    But the movie is clearly pro-immigration and pro-free trade. Do you really think the Alliance (or whatever they’re called) should be in control of who goes where and what can be shipped? That’s the theme you took away from the movie? Again, you’re divorced from reality. Mal and crew should be able to go anywhere they want to go, and engage in any kind of trade that they want to, without the Evil Empire telling them “No.”

    I’m sick of your whiny ass liberal “fairness” talk. I heard enough of that from the Green Party. It is the talk of losers.

  26. Devious David Says:

    I’m pro-immigration and pro-free trade. I also have the Serenity DVD in front of my DVD player, but haven’t watched it yet… guess I should go do that.

  27. globalist_elitist Says:

    David - The main thrust of the movie is anti-totalitarianism. The immigration and trade aspects are minor in comparison, but I mentioned them to dig at Trent. Don’t let our comments set you up for some expectations that might not be met. Just watch the movie and enjoy - it is really good! Then go out and get the DVD series of Firefly. The most awesome thing, and I’m sure Trent will agree, is the fact that you literally do not have to watch the movie before the TV show or vice versa. They complement one another, fit together, but the sequence in which you watch them is unimportant.

  28. Trent Hill Says:

    ***SPOILERS FOR SERENITY/FIREFLY!***

    “I like the movie/show for the same reasons you do. I don’t think “faith” plays a part at all. “Conviction” is different from “faith.” Faith is for people who are divorced from reality. Conviction is for people who are principled.”

    I disagree. I mean, look at what Shephard Book says before he dies. He says he wishes Mal would find Faith. And Mal says something degrading about religion. And Shephard says, “Why do you always think im talking about God when I say ‘faith’?” Mal’s faith, or conviction, in small government/freedom/liberty is a central tenant of both the show and movie.

    “But the movie is clearly pro-immigration and pro-free trade. Do you really think the Alliance (or whatever they’re called) should be in control of who goes where and what can be shipped? That’s the theme you took away from the movie? Again, you’re divorced from reality. Mal and crew should be able to go anywhere they want to go, and engage in any kind of trade that they want to, without the Evil Empire telling them “No.””

    Eh,seeing as this is just a dig at me,ill leave it alone. Mal and crew are outlaws, THATS why they avoid checking into planets (immigration).

    Here is where we can agree. It is DEFINETLY anti-totalitarian. Anti-big government. Anti-imperial. It is also DEFINETLY Good. And Definetly funny. Malcolm Reynolds may be the funniest sci-fi character ever portrayed.

    “I’m sick of your whiny ass liberal “fairness” talk. I heard enough of that from the Green Party. It is the talk of losers.”

    The difference is, I want fair competition. The Green Party wants everyone to get handouts…but they want those handouts to be equal.

    As for buying the show. Target has it right now for $20. I bought 3 copies the other day and used it for birthday presents.

  29. globalist_elitist Says:

    I object to you shopping at Target. For one, it is a liberal store. The corporation gives to liberal causes. For two, it is a big box store. It isn’t “fair” for you to shop there when you could, instead, shop at Ma & Pa’s DVD Wherehouse, where the same DVD would cost $32. Third, I’m pretty sure that Target is part of the Illuminati.

    You should tender your resignation to the CP immediately.

    As for them being outlaws - they are outlaws because the laws are unjust. They SHOULD be able to go wherever they want to go and trade peacefully, should they not?

    Trent Hill = An FDR Democrat. The 14 Freedoms. One of which is “Freedom from unfair competition.”

    Hooray for socialism!

  30. Trent Hill Says:

    hehe. Regardless of party afilliation: Firefly for $20 fhat the wuck?

    Also, the problem between our views are this: My worldview suggests patriotism. I feel akin to the farmer in Kansas, the loan-handler in New York. You dont. You worship money.
    I care if a Kansas man can’t find work,and must suffer.
    I care about a Chinese man not finding work too, but not as much.

    This relates to an obviously complex question. Why would i like anyone more than anyone else?
    The answer: Though it may make EVERYONE here VERY angry with. Nationalism. This country is amazing. The people are amazing. The spirit and history of this nation is amazing. I watch the Olympics because I love seeing how America always wins twice as many golds as China or Russia. The Bolshevik bastards get what they deserve. I share a government, world-view, history, and culture with the people of America. I don’t share that with the Chinese.

  31. globalist_elitist Says:

    I consider myself very patriotic too. Your views are misgudied patriotism; weflare patriotism. I believe in the people of this country enough to believe that they do not need the government’s insulation from global competition. The U.S. will never fail unless it is infected with the poisonous, admittedly nationalist views that you espouse. I am an optimist. And I believe, as did the founders, that individuals acting in their own rational self interest best serves society as a whole. I do not believe in collectivism, of which nationalism is one of the crudest varieities. Morally, nationalism is no better than racism or communism. We are not the sum of our ancestors’ genes. We are unique individuals. America is not a nation of people ruled and protected by a government. It is an idea. And I share kinship with anyone who believes in the classic American ideals of democratic republianism, capitalism, individualism, secularism, and social/lega/political equality. I don’t care if they live in China or across the street. And anyone who does not share these values is not my kin.

  32. globalist_elitist Says:

    Also, I do not worship money. I worship growth. Growth is measured by production and ehanced living standards. Growth is the solution to worldwide poverty. So to say I don’t care about other people is not true. I care about them because ending world poverty, through growth, will provide gemoetric booms that will make us all richer and more prosperous.

  33. Trent Hill Says:

    The Founders were also Nationalists GE. Or will you try and deny that too?

  34. globalist_elitist Says:

    I not only deny it, I think it is one of the most absurd statements you’ve ever made.

    The founders didn’t even see themselves as Americans, but as Virginians, etc. And as Englishmen.

  35. SVD_SUCKS Says:

    I am PISSED that my hard earned dollars were conned from me. What a slimebag calling himself a libertarian. Whoever said it was “only $10” screw you. I gave more than that and even if I didn’t a thief is still a thief. I could have given my money to Reason, CATO or Ron Paul all of whom are doing FAR more for the libertarian movement than that fraud SVD and anyone else connected with this bullshit (Badnarik) have ever accomplished.

  36. SVD_SUCKS Says:

    Oh by the way, this has not been “whined about enough already”. Until that jerk refunds that money or at the very least apologize about misusing donations alot of people are not going to “forget about it”. An aplology and a $10K donation to a worthy cause (Ron Paul) would go a long way.

  37. globalist_elitist Says:

    Too bad it would be illegal to donate $10k to Ron Paul.

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