Happy New Year!

A wonderful Happy New Year to all of Third Party Watch’s readers!

Thanks for helping to make 2006 such a great year… and we’ve got even more planned for 2007!

100 Responses to “Happy New Year!”

  1. Eric Dondero Says:

    And what a wonderful gift for New Year’s day we Libertarians have received.

    This morning there’s a major article in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, top headline in the POLITICAL NOTEBOOK section: “Libertarians court Wayne Root to run for President: candidate schedules meeting with top Libertarians.”

    He hasn’t even organized an Exploratory Committee yet, and the media is jumping all over the story. This could be the makings of the best Libertarian Presidential Campaign in history!

    You can read all about it at www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

  2. torah Says:

    Yeah, screw Scrubby and Phillies. If the LP wants to look like a winner, we’re gonna have to back Root’s candidacy.

    And leave L. Ron Hacker out of it.

  3. paulie cannoli Says:

    I heard Eric has stayed in touch with the Sasquatch who signed his smoking rights petition in Alaska and is grooming the Sasquatch for a possible VP run on the 2008 Republican and/or Libertarian ticket with Wayne Root. The Sasquatch could not be reached for immediate comment, but several reliable anonymous sources in the Alaska LP have confirmed this story.

    I think the internet will be crucial in securing a victory for Root-Sasquatch ‘08.

    Also on the ticket in ‘08 on Planet Eric will be a gay transsexual abortionist pot grower on the Constitution ticket, a Mormon missionary gunsmith running as a Green, a homechooler State Spending Limits activist running as the nominee of the Double Penetration Donkey Show Party, and of course a Zell Miller-Bill O’Reilly Libertarian dream ticket.

    The Sasquatch gives this scnario “three thumbs up.”

    McCain seems likely to be the Rapepublicneocon (NSGOP) nominee. I don’t remember Eric calling him a libertarian yet, but it’s probably just a matter of time.

    He did call Lieberman libertarian-leaning. Amused and skeptical readers, I shit you not. Maybe Lieberman can be the Unity88 candidate.

    Let’s face facts: only the Root-Sasquatch national ticket can save us from brain-eating parasites, earthquakes, floods, and certain doom!

  4. paulie cannoli Says:

    So who is Root?

    In his own self promoting hype…

    http://premierespeakers.com/131/index.cfm

    And now for someone else’s opinion of the self proclaimed “Vegas Tony Robbins,
    WAR

    This guy says he worked for Root - let him tell you all about it

    http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/2303-i-worked-wayne-root-let-me-tell-you-about.html

    I think Eric and/or Root should start out by running for Vice President on the America For Lieberman Party, the new national spinoff of the Connecticut for Lieberman Party.

    Oh yeah one other thing….

    Over at [email protected] Eric writes…

    “The LP desperately needs a diehard salesman, and less of the boring, soft-spoken Policy Wankers.”

    I agree. But I don’t think it means we need a self hyping shlockmeister like WAR, the Vegas Tony Robbins (“he has a star on the VEGAS walk of stars!”).

    To me, that’s an argument for Kubby over Phillies.

    http://kubby.com/

    I read the review-journal story linked from Eric’s site.

    I’m betting, along with Chris Moore, that we will not nominate a warmonger for President in 2008.

    Of course, I wouldn’t vote for or support a warmonger for president in any way.

    His pre-conditions for such considering a race should eliminate him from consideration, as well.

    A few quotes:

    1) “This came out of the blue,” Root said of the buzz. “I’m being recruited, but I have no idea whether I’ll do it.”

    2) Earlier this month, Root, the relentlessly self-promoting author of “Millionaire Republican,” was the subject of posts on the blogs Red State and Mainstream Libertarian. “He’ll win the sports vote,” the Red State headline noted. Reaction in the comments section was lukewarm.

    3)”I’d have to be convinced I had a realistic chance, not to win the presidency, but to build a base; that it wouldn’t hurt my standing with the Republican Party; and that I could continue to run my business,” he said.

    Root described his views as “fiscally conservative, socially progressive and strong on defense.”

    4) Whether or not he runs, Root said, “My ultimate goal has never changed: to be the Republican senator for the state of Nevada.” He said he also may run for Las Vegas mayor.
    ———————————————————————
    Maybe it’s just me, but I would prefer a Libertarian candidate who intends to use his campaign to build the party and the movement…

    Not some warmonger who will use it to build his list for future Republican Party races for lower office and his rather shady sports gambling business.

  5. Eric Dondero Says:

    Paulie, these are reposts from past Third Party Watch posts of yours. Try to be original next time. I can’t imagine Austin Cassidy being too pleased about you reposting posts that you’ve already posted here.

    And can I make another suggestion.

    Please try to be more concise with your posts. People really are interested in what you have to say. But why such long posts?

    Make your point quickly, and move on.

  6. paulie cannoli Says:

    Eric, thanks for the suggestions, but I won’t go around assuming everyone read my old posts from way back when.

    And as for being original you’re a fine one to talk about that…you post a lot of the same stuff all the time. Or maybe it just sounds the same, I don’t know.

    As for the length of my posts, sorry if it bothers you, but I like to make a complete case, or as complete as I have time for.

    If you’re not interested skip them; if you’re only slightly interested you can skim, and if you find them as entertaining as I do, you can read the whole thing.

    As for American football style politics….I look at it from the viewpoint of a blade of God’s Green Grass on the field.

    I’m just hoping I don’t get torn to shreds by the spiked shoes of the Red and Blue teams playing for megabucks which they sucker their huge crowds of spectators out of.

    Happy New Year …it’s a great year to
    Let Freedom Grow!

  7. paulie cannoli Says:

    I’m just hoping I don’t get torn to shreds by the spiked shoes of the Red and Blue teams playing for megabucks which they sucker their huge crowds of spectators out of.

    Also like football, the millionaire players tearing themselves to shreds are doing it for the benefit of their billionaire owners, and charging their thousandaire fans way more than reasonable.

    Of course, the fans at least have a choice in the matter in football, and they are not likely to get ripped up or hurt in the process, so that’s why in the game of politics, we’re more like the grass on the field of play than the fans:

    We don’t get a choice in the matter, and we do get ripped up.

    Where we’re more like the fans is that we are the ones paying for it.

  8. paulie cannoli Says:

    BTW there was only one repost from the archives here.

    The other one had only been posted at Knappster.

    http://knappster.blogspot.com/

  9. paulie cannoli Says:

    This was posted on GroundUpLibs by the Nevada LP Chairman:

    “I have an inkling who the “top Libertarians” are who have contacted
    Republican Senator wannabe Wayne Allyn Root about becoming the LP’s 08 Pres nominee. Scott Lieberman (member of the LNC from CA) requested I keep it quiet that he was considering a run for the LP nod. He contacted me on New Year’s Eve. On New Years’ Day the LVRJ ran the following article:

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Jan-01-Mon-2007/news/11696775.html

    The article outs the possibility of Root running and says there are top
    Libertarians trying to recruit him to run. There appears to be no benefit
    to my silence on the issue now that Root or the “top officials” have went to
    the press.

    Wayne Allyn Root’s voter registration is Republican.

    Here is a link to his website http://www.millionairerepublican.com/ (I’m not
    kidding)

    Attached is an article Wayne Allyn Root wrote suggesting that a John
    McCain/Joseph Lieberman presidential ticket is just what the Rep party needs to win the White House for the next 20 years. I have no idea how he expects to win. I told Lieberman that our debate at the convention is open to all candidates who have announced their candidacy for the Libertarian Party’s nomination. As of now, therefore, Root is not invited.

    Feel free to distribute this message to any lists you may be on. I don’t
    want people having the misimpression that the NVLP is behind this effort.
    For the benefit of those outside NV, I have never met nor talked to Wayne
    Allyn Root and he has never attended any metings or fundraisers of the LPNV or the LP of Clark County, where he lives. I regret that the Las Vegas Review Journal wrote the article they did it might leave the reader with the impression that top officials in Nevada have been pursuing a Root candidacy.

    Jim Duensing
    Chair NVLP

  10. torah Says:

    Kubbyhole and Phillies won’t have the financial resources like Root possesses to even come close to 1% of the vote. Root could pull in 2-5% if given the LP nomination, but then, the LP would probably shoot itself in the foot again by not accepting federal matching funds.

    Bloomberg will be the X factor anyway in 2008. The LP will need to focus on winning races in say, New Hampshire or Alaska.

    Is Eric getting most of his heated feedback from pro-Kubby or pro-Phillies people? I’m just curious…if that’s the case, then no wonder he gets thrashed.

  11. bcsears Says:

    Happy New Year to you Austin!

  12. Phil Sawyer Says:

    With all due respect to Eric Dondero and Wayne Root: Who is Wayne Root?

  13. paulie cannoli Says:

    Phil, see my post from 7:49.

    http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/01/01/happy-new-year/#comment-86217

    Also

    http://thirdpartywatch.com/2007/01/01/happy-new-year/#comment-86458

    And links contained therein, if you want to know.

  14. paulie cannoli Says:

    Torah,

    Financial resources can be acquired. That’s what a campaign is for. We have two years to build momentum.

    If Root could get 2-5% of the vote, which he would not, what would be the benefit to the LP?

    Root is not interested in building the movement or the party.

    He is interested in using it to promote himself, his possibly ripoff sports gambling business, and his future Republican races for Governor and maybe Mayor.

    He has no background in the LP and intends to campaign part time if he even decides he wants to run at all.

    He is a warmonger, and thus antithetical to key libertarian principles.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I would prefer a Libertarian candidate who
    intends to use his campaign to build the party and the movement…

    Not some warmonger who will use it to build his list for future
    Republican Party races for lower office and his rather shady sports
    gambling business.

    Should we take the idea of Root running seriously?

    Probably not too much, but I can see it being a possible threat.

    Efforts are underway to breach the rift between the LP and the
    Kochtopus, which has existed since 1983 when the Koch-supported
    candidate was denied the LP presidential nomination for being a
    warmonger. This was due to the efforts of the original LP Radical
    Caucus. At that point, the Koch (“coke”) machine cut off funding and
    support for the LP.

    Many Koch-connected outfits have shilled for Republicans, and some of
    their scholars have endorsed the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Eric Dondero claims to know some of the Kochtopus-connected
    ‘libertarian movement’ bigwigs who are warmongers and I’ve heard about
    the efforts to hook the LP back up with the Koch$$ from several sources.

    This might tie in to the general outlines of the “secret” plan to make
    the LP more palatable to a larger segment of the Republican right.

    Needless to say this is the WRONG direction for the LP as well as the country.

    Is this what is really behind the whole move to water down the
    platform, so we can make the LP more palatable for candidates like
    Root and get another shot at the Koch family largesse? I know that’s not what Carl Milsted and Tim West want, at least it’s certainly not what they say they want. But it may be why they are getting their way, or at least a decent sized chunk of it.

    Over at
    http://lastfreevoice.wordpress.com/2006/12/28/wtf-is-our-ex-vp-candidate-doing/

    Stuart Richards reports that the Koch-owned Georgia Pacific timber
    company is seeking massive government corporate welfare to bail out
    their inefficient timber mills.

    If this is the kind of folks behind Root, I don’t think their renewed
    effort to take over the LP should necessarily be taken as a joke,
    especially when a major city newspaper is apparently taking them
    seriously.

    Nor should we applaud their machinations, which they have a very sordid history of both inside and outside the LP.

  15. paulie cannoli Says:

    Tom Knapp posted this at LP Radicals yahoo group.

    It explains the strategy of the Kubby campaign:

    “[kubby’s] campaign is aimed at building the
    Libertarian Party and the libertarian movement, not at being elected
    president himself. He’s not crazy, so he doesn’t expect to wake up on
    November Xth, 2008 and learn that he needs to rent a U-Haul to take
    his stuff to the White House. He wants his presidential campaign to
    move the LP closer to the day when one of its candidates CAN expect
    that … or when it’s just not necessary because we achieved a free
    country without winning elections for ourselves. That means he wants
    more members for the LP, more constituencies identifying the LP as
    being the primary “party that’s on our side,” and more people acting
    on that perception.”

    “Paul’s immigration comments [in the Denver LP convention thread] on Third Party Watch went directly to that … yes, a majority is currently anti-immigration-freedom, but there’s a very large pro-immigration-freedom minority that’s not represented
    by the Ds or Rs. We should be going after that large minority
    constituency which agrees with us—which is probably at least 80
    times the size of our average presidential vote. We should be
    planting the seed in their minds that we were with them even when they
    weren’t on top, because they, and we, were right ... because someday
    they WILL be on top, and the Ds and Rs will be shilling for their
    votes and hoping they didn’t notice us.”

    “There are a lot of large constituencies like that—they agree with
    us, they’re right, and they’re unrepresented by the major parties. By
    sticking with them, hard, when they’re in the minority, we increase
    the chance that they’ll stick with US when they’re in the majority.
    But we really have to go all out in support of them, not just expect
    them to chase us. Being right and agreeing with them isn’t enough.
    We have to turn out in support of them, and we have to get them to
    make that reciprocal commitment of joining, or at least firmly
    identifying with, the LP.

    Regards,
    Tom”

    I don’t see a hypothetical Root campaign helping out with such an effort.
    I see it having the opposite effect.

    Root’s campaign would serve to further tarnish the LP’s already tarnished image with all the groups we should be appealing to, our natural constituency.

    All for the purpose of aiding his sports betting business and his future efforts to become Governor of Nevada and/or Mayor of Vegas as a Republican.

  16. Eric Dondero Says:

    Yeah Torah, my biggest critics happen to be top campaign staffers with the Kubby Campaign.

    Ironically, I like George Phillies personally, even though he’s a total Dweeb (and he himself knows this). I had George on my radio show the other night. We had a great chat. He’s good people. But DEFINITELY NOT! Presidential material.

    The Phillies people don’t bash me, but the Kubby people do.

    (BTW, for info on Libertarian Politics Live BlogTalkRadio please visit www.mainstreamlibertarian.com)

  17. matt Says:

    A)
    If the LP gets (back) into bed with the defense contractor Koch family, I’ll take my vote and my energy elsewhere. War is the exact opposite of Liberty, and I will position myself in direct opposition to warmongers for the rest of my natural days. Otherwise, I face the (justified) wrath of God and most of the humans on earth.

    B)
    To libertarians and lib-leaners:
    I’ve heard it said that the best way to protect Liberty is to exercise it. Let’s all give our rights a work-out in 07!

  18. paulie cannoli Says:

    Matt:

    Well said and right on the money!

  19. Darcy Richardson Says:

    Nothing against Eric Dondero, but Paulie Cannoli is right. Libertarians should be very leery of anyone who’s more concerned about hurting his “standing within the Republican Party” than in promoting the LP. Wayne Root, who can probably rattle off the lines in tonight’s NBA matchups without missing a beat, is a charlatan. Like many other Republicans these days, Mr. Root - a guy who claims to apply the principles of Wall Street to sports gambling - hasn’t made an honest buck in years and probably couldn’t identify the “Sunni Triangle” on a map if his life depended on it.

    Compared to this clown, Steve Kubby, George Phillies and every other Libertarian Party presidential hopeful suddenly becomes Lincolnesque!

  20. Darcy Richardson Says:

    My last comment wasn’t meant as a disparaging remark against Kubby or Phillies—- both of whom would be excellent nominees. Either of them would also probably be a good President, certainly better than any chief executive in my lifetime.

  21. Darcy Richardson Says:

    One last thought. Libertarians should be grateful that Eric Dondero was able to get to the “Root” of the problem. The LP has been too closely identified with the Right, with Republicanism and all of that party’s evil misdeeds. The Libertarian Party’s real constituency is on the Left—- the millions of antiwar, pro-choice and anti-establishment, freedom-loving Americans without a party they can call their own.

    Come home, America. Come home, LP.

  22. Darcy Richardson Says:

    “Yeah Torah, my biggest critics happen to be top campaign staffers with the Kubby Campaign.”—- Eric Dondero

    Well, isn’t that the whole point of the Libertarian Party? To stamp out authoritarianism, enlighten the masses, and let freedom ring? Freedom entails the truth, as painful as that might be at times.

    The fact that Kubby’s folks are criticizing you - an acknowledged apologist for Dubya’s cruel, mindless, and disastrous destruction of Iraq, an unwarranted war that’s resulted in more than 655,000 deaths - is all the more reason that their presidential candidate should be nominated in Denver.

    Sounds like a damn good campaign organization to me.

  23. Darcy Richardson Says:

    By the way, Eric. Any word yet on when the citizens of Baghdad—- at least those lucky enough to still be living—- will have continuous running water and electricity, something they routinely enjoyed before Bush’s illegal invasion? Just curious…

  24. Darcy Richardson Says:

    Dateline January 20, 1909:

    President Wayne Root. The seemingly impossible finally happened—- a president even dumber than George W. Bush.

  25. Darcy Richardson Says:

    Dateline January 20, 2009:

    President Wayne Root. The seemingly impossible finally happened - a president even dumber than George W. Bush.

  26. Darcy Richardson Says:

    Sorry about the typo in my next-to-last post. My fingers were in an earlier century.

  27. Eric Dondero Says:

    Darcy sounds like you were in a comma on September 11, 2001.

    Let me bring you up to speed.

    On that day Islamic Terrorists attacked our Nation killing nearly 3,000 of your fellow citizens.

    Oops, I made a mistake. They can’t be your fellow citizens for you are not an America. You are some sort of Leftist Trash who does nothing but piss on the United States of America.

    You Ms. or Mr. whatever you are, have no right to call yourself a “libertarian.” Now go away, and join the Burak HUSSEIN Obama effort, where you belong.

  28. Fingers Says:

    Yeah, but that was a good century, back when we had real freedom—- long before the two parties bureaucratized everything.

  29. Eric Dondero Says:

    As for Wayne Root, the proof is in the pudding.

    Any press for Kubby or Phillies? They’ve both been running for what, 6 to 8 months now? Even an article in the hometown paper there in Worchester, Mass or in California?

    Wayne Root is not even running yet, hasn’t even set up an exploratory committee, and the Las Vegas Review-Journal runs a top of the fold story on him in the Political Section.

    The LP usually can’t buy media like that.

    We’re looking at the possible makings of the best, most professionally-run, agressive Presidential Campaign for the Libertarian Party in history.

    And I should know: I’ve served two past LP Presidential Candidates—Ron Paul and Roger MacBride. And I must say, from what I’ve seen so far, Root has it together much more than either Ron or Roger.

  30. Eric Dondero Says:

    Yeah, ole’ George W. Bush is dumb alright. What’s he got, degrees from both Yale and Princeton. Gotta be pretty damn dumb to get degrees from those “community college like” institutions.

    And all that crap about him scoring higher on his entrance exams than John F’ing Kerry, was just hype. I mean after all just because you can check the records at those institutions doesn’t make it true.

  31. Eric Dondero Says:

    Ms. or Mr. Darcy Richardson says the “Libertarian Party is too closely identified with the Right…”

    Duh! Could it have a little something to do with the fact that the Libertarian Movement was FOUNDED BY A FLAMING RIGHTWING??? Dana Rohrabacher, Chairman of the YAF Libertarian Caucus 1966-69.

    And the Libertarian Party was founded by the Chairman of the Colorado Young Republicans, David Nolan.

    And 7 out of 8 Libertarian Party Presidential candidates came from the Republican Party, while 3 and 1/2 returned. (The half is for Andre Marrou. Rumors have been circulating for years that he went back to the GOP, but are unconfirmed. The other three are of course, MacBride who ended up despising the LP years before his death, Ron Paul, and Bush supporter John Hospers.)

    Not too mention that practically every prominent elected official of the Libertarian Party since it’s inception, particularly the 8 state legislators from Alaska and New Hampshire ended up Caucusing with the GOP once in office.

    All this, just might lead one to the conclusion that, gasp! Libertarians are indeed Right-wingers.

  32. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Darcy sounds like you were in a comma on September 11, 2001.

    Let me bring you up to speed.

    On that day Islamic Terrorists attacked our Nation killing nearly 3,000 of your fellow citizens.”—- Eric Dondero

    Funny you mention that, Eric, but I don’t remember any of the hijackers being from Iraq. Nor do I remember Saddam Hussein financing any of the atrocious activities on September 11. Curiously, according to almost every U.S. and international investigative source, it seems that almost all of the financing for that horrible terrorist attack came from the Saudis—- the Middle East country with the closest ties to the Bush family.

    And, no, I wasn’t in a “comma” that day. I was in a semi-colon, or some other independent clause.

  33. Eric Dondero Says:

    Amazing what a little Google search can do.

    I did some surfing on “Darcy Richardson libertarian”. Seems the basis for Ms. Richardson’s angst is the defection of the Libertarian Party’s top elected official last year from the LP to the GOP. Richardson was crowing about the election of Ben Brandon as a Libertarian to County Executive of Dade County, GA in 2004. She even tipped off Ballot Access News on the story, and was gleeful, almost giddy about it.

    Well, well, well, fast forward a year or two, and lo and behold, Brandon quits the LP and joins the libertarian wing of the Republican Party.

    Tsk, tsk, Darcy. We live in a new era. People can find little tidbits about you like that with a few fast keystrokes.

    Must be touch being a Libertarian in Georgia. Just read an article from the Macon newspaper the other day, how the GOP in the State was turning “libertarian.” Looks like you may be left out in the cold.

  34. Eric Dondero Says:

    So, I guess what you’re saying is Number One, you were in favor of the War in Afghanistan, and that you do still support having US Troops over there, correct? Let’s get you on record. I mean, you quickly brought up Saddam Hussein. Our initial response was against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Why did you ignore commenting on that War?

    Number two, you are a victim of gross liberal media bias. There WERE ABSOLUTELY CONNECTIONS between Iraqi Intelligence and Al Queda, numourous documented instances. But of course, the leftwing press chose to pooh-pooh the evidence or downplay it.

    Not only that, there’s numerous evidence to indicate that Saddam was actually behind the Oklahoma City Bombing. In fact, the Congressional Oversight Comm. just released the report on that the day before Christmas, chastising the FBI for not following up on the Middle Eastern connections, and for ignoring Jayna Davis.

    It was an AP story. Sorry you missed that one.

    Then there’s the USS Starke. The Iraqis bombed the Starke in 1986 killing 36 US Sailors.

    Then there’s the invasion of Kuwait.

    Then there’s the gassing of 200,000 Kurds in Kurdistan.

    Are you starting to see a pattern here? Or, would you have rather kept Saddam Hussein in office as President of Iraq?

  35. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Libertarians are indeed Right-wingers.”—- Eric Dondero

    Only the stupid ones.

  36. Eric Dondero Says:

    “according to almost every U.S. and international investigative source…—Darcy Richardson.

    Let me guess Darcy, you’re talking about the BBC, Al Jazeera and CNN here, right? Those are your “independent” sources.

    Just a guess.

  37. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “I did some surfing on “Darcy Richardson libertarian”. Seems the basis for Ms. Richardson’s angst is the defection of the Libertarian Party’s top elected official last year from the LP to the GOP. Richardson was crowing about the election of Ben Brandon as a Libertarian to County Executive of Dade County, GA in 2004. She even tipped off Ballot Access News on the story, and was gleeful, almost giddy about it.”

    Tsk, tsk, Eric, but I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t know what you found on Google, but I’ve never heard of Ben Brandon in Georgia, nor did I ever tip Richard Winger’s Ballot Access News off on any story relating to that individual. You can verify that with Mr. Winger. And also, I’m not Ms. Richardson—- I’m a guy. Like your simplistic Republican-inspired political beliefs and your President’s flawed intelligence, your Internet research leaves a lot to be desired.

  38. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “So, I guess what you’re saying is Number One, you were in favor of the War in Afghanistan, and that you do still support having US Troops over there, correct? Let’s get you on record. I mean, you quickly brought up Saddam Hussein. Our initial response was against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Why did you ignore commenting on that War?”—- Eric Dondero

    No, I opposed both invasions. Spin it any way you want from now until eternity, but Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11.

  39. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    Your hero, George W. Bush, invaded the wrong country and 655,000 people are dead as a result.

  40. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Let me guess Darcy, you’re talking about the BBC, Al Jazeera and CNN here, right? Those are your “independent” sources.”

    All three of those networks are far superior to Faux News.

  41. Nigel Watt Says:

    Libertarians are neither right-wingers nor left-wingers.

    Paulie:
    “Maybe it’s just me, but I would prefer a Libertarian candidate who
    intends to use his campaign to build the party and the movement…”

    So would I. That’s why I’m for George Phillies. Phillies has already created radio ads that all Libertarian campaigns can use (and some have used them, too), and plans to distribute media contact information to help all Libertarian campaigns. (Phillies’s plans to do so are available here.)

    Phillies also won’t do any damage to the LP himself - he’s running on issues the average American cares a great deal about without sacrificing principles.

  42. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Seems the basis for Ms. Richardson’s angst is the defection of the Libertarian Party’s top elected official last year from the LP to the GOP.”

    While I honestly don’t anything about what you’re claiming here, I’m always glad to see America’s third-parties rid of their fleas.

  43. matt Says:

    Eric,
    I don’t mind if you want to promote a faction of the Republican Party on dozens of message boards. Actually, I admire your stamina, since you seem to be everywhere. I mind a little that this faction has the word Liberty in it’s name even though they’re pro-war. That seems ridiculous and I don’t like it, but to each their own.

    I guess what really bothers me is when you try to steer the Libertarian Party towards neoconservative, war-all-the-time garbage. That I find offensive, and it’s making a lot of good people with clear consciences look like fools. Cut it out.

    Thanks.

  44. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Then there’s the invasion of Kuwait.”—- Eric Dondero

    Actually, like the U.S. State Department’s April Glaspie, I preferred to look the other way when Saddam invaded Kuwait. As environmentalist Jacques-Yves Cousteau once pointed out, British Petroleum. Royal Dutch Shell and the German Deutsche Bank formed a syndicate during World War I, which was renamed the Iraq Petroleum Company, and stole the richest oil-producing land from Iraq. The British, Dutch and Germans made a forture off Iraq’s oil reserves, while the impoverished citizens of Iraq watched helplessly as neighboring Kuwait and Saudi Arabia later grew rich on oil revenues—- money that should have been theirs. The Iraqis, of course, were screwed again later by the IPC’s self-serving inactivity in the 1960s, when billions of dollars in oil revenues went to the region’s four other oil-exporting activities, most notably Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. A bad situation was further exacerbated when the oil syndicate plugged oil wells capable of producing an additional 50,000 barrels of oil a day—- a fact kept secret from the Iraqi government. (Jacques-Yves Cousteau, “How Big Oil Beguiled Iraq,” The Cousteau Almanac, pp. 494-495.)

    Read a little history, Eric, before trying to comment on a particular subject. Otherwise, you’ll come across as a complete idiot like your hero, George W.Bush..

  45. matt Says:

    Jacques-Yves Cousteau?

    Like the undersea explorer?

  46. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Jacques-Yves Cousteau?

    Like the undersea explorer?”—- Matt.

    Yes, Matt. He’s one and the same—- not only a great undersea explorer, but a remarkable, gifted and astute historian. He was one of my favorite people…

  47. matt Says:

    One of my favorite people is also a Frenchman. Rene Girard is a literary critic, ethicist, and sociologist. What do they put in the water over there? Thanks for the headsup about Mr. (Dr.?) Cousteau, though!

  48. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Not only that, there’s numerous evidence to indicate that Saddam was actually behind the Oklahoma City Bombing.”—- Eric Dondero

    Eric, you obviously live in a world far removed from the rest of us. The U.S. House International Relations investigative subcommittee is expected to release the findings of its two-year investigation tomorrow, clearly showing that there isn’t any conclusive evidence of a foreign connection to the Oklahoma City bombing. Iraq certainly wasn’t involved in the domestic terrorist attack carried out by two young Americans who, for the most part, could have easily passed as typical Republicans. But what the hell, why don’t you exhume Saddam’s body and hang him again—- just for old times sake.

    The world according to Bush.

  49. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    Matt,

    Girard sounds like a pretty fascinating guy. You’ve peaked my curiousity; I’ll try to read up on him. Thanks.

    Darcy

  50. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “piqued” my interest…sorry, typing before thinking. Thanks again.

  51. Timothy West Says:

    is that not one of his sons? I thought he died many years ago, and one of his sons is now carrying on. wrong?

  52. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    Tim—- I’m probably being presumptuous, but if you’re referring to Jacques-Yves Cousteau, referred to in one of my previous posts, he died in 1997. His book, “The Cousteau Almanac: An Inventory of Life on our Water Planet,” was originally published in 1980. I think something like 68 people contributed articles in the book. It’s a great reference source; if you can find a used copy, I would highly recommend it.

    You’re right, Tim, that his son Jean-Michel Cousteau has been carrying on his work in the deep sea—- at least the last I heard.

    Hope you’re doing well. Happy New Year!

  53. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “You are some sort of Leftist Trash who does nothing but piss on the United States of America.”—- Eric Dondero

    And who says the Republican Party no longer produces statesmen? The eloquent, educated and erudite Eric, spokesman for the GOP’s better self. A party of class…

  54. Eric Dondero Says:

    And Matt, I mind a great deal that you are trying to stear the Libertarian movement away from our real goals of fighting Fascism in all its forms.

    Dana Rohrabacher is the Founder of the Libertarian movement, not Michael Moore. I suggest you go back and read some Libertarian history. You’re obvioulsy grossly ignorant of the very movement you claim to be a part of.

  55. Eric Dondero Says:

    Wow Darcy, at least you’re an honest America-hating Leftist.

    You actually opposed the War in Afghanistan? I don’t even think our resident pacifist Paulie would agree with you on that one. You are really out there in La La Land.

    So, I guess the proper US foreign policy is to hand over our country to Islamo-Fascists, and let them know that we want more of the same that they did to us on 9/11, huh?

    It’s one thing to oppose the War in Iraq. Quite another to oppose the War in Afghanistan. You are to the Left of even Michael Moore.

  56. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    “Wow Darcy, at least you’re an honest America-hating Leftist.

    You actually opposed the War in Afghanistan?”—- Eric Dondero

    War was never the answer, not in Afghanistan or in Iraq. Our goal should have been the apprehension of those responsible for 9/11, and it should have been conducted by our intelligence community—- not the U.S. military.

    In retrospect, I’m glad the war in Afghanistan was such a success, especially with the arrest of Osama Bin Laden. Oops, we never caught him, did we? What exactly did we accomplish there, Eric? For that matter, what did we accomplish in Iraq, other than creating a larger haven for the terrorists than they ever dreamed possible?

    I’d rather be to the left of Michael Moore—- or anyone else, for that matter—- than in the middle of the road where the worst accidents occur. Your beloved President Bush, driving hastily down the white line in the center of the road, has created a world in which Americans will forever be a sitting target. No American will ever be safe again. That’s the real tragedy of 9/11.

    The United States is now the most despised nation in the world.

  57. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    With Afghanistan slowly receding back to the Taliban and the escalating nightmare in Iraq - a country teetering on a full-scale civil war - one has to wonder just how serious the Bush Administration really was in bringing the culprits of 9/11 to justice.

    It really makes one wonder…

    I guess that’s what you get when the most nefarious and deceitful cast of characters in U.S. history pilfer the presidency.

  58. Timothy West Says:

    Darcy,

    I’m on the mend - i think. My doctors basically dropped the ball and I wound up OD on some drugs becuase I had lost so much weight, but hey never adjusted my dosages to match - I wound up in the hospital yet again.

    New MRI to see what the cancer is doing on Jan 25th. Further treatment based on results.

  59. torah Says:

    Without Root, fundraising will be a fruitless effort.

    The LP will not be able to gain credibility for their future presidential candidates for a few solid years thanks to the L. Ron Hacker debacle known as the CD-10 race in Texas.

    Does Kubbyhole have that much to shell out for TV ads?

    Grow the party? Fine. Grow the party. But those contributors to the Badnarik effort will feel hesitant to give any more money …mark my words.

    I hope Root strongly considers running. It’s not like any of the posters here would be delegates anyway.

  60. paulie cannoli Says:

    torah

    Grow the party? Fine. Grow the party. But those contributors to the Badnarik effort will feel hesitant to give any more money …mark my words.

    Some will, at least initially. Luckily, we’ll be reaching out to lots of other folks who would never have even considered contributing to Badnarik.

    I hope Root strongly considers running.

    Not! See my comments above as to why.

    It’s not like any of the posters here would be delegates anyway.

    Why not? I was a delegate in 2000 and 2004 and I might be again. I’m sure plenty of other people here were and will be too.

  61. paulie cannoli Says:

    Eric

    Yeah Torah, my biggest critics happen to be top campaign staffers with the Kubby Campaign.

    What staffers would those be? Only one person I know of who has a title with the campaign has mildly ridiculed your “Root campaign” because he thinks it is ridiculous.

    That would be Tom Knapp, Communications Director, speaking for himself and not in any campaign capacity as far as I know.

    I’m not a campaign staffer and I have no title in the Kubby campaign.

    I support Kubby, am volunteering on his behalf - so far by reposting some of his releases and defending him on blogs like this one, and some email lists - and have offered to help out the campaign when and where I can.

    That does not make me a staffer, much less a “top” one. If you’ve received some comment from Kubby staffers other than Knapp - especially
    any in their official capacity - by all means, please share them.

    To my knowledge Steve Kubby has not had anything to say about Wayne Root.

    Here’s what George Phillies said about him…

    from the comments at Knappster.blogspot.com

    ======================================

    It will be interesting to see if Wayne Root actually shows up someplace where Libertarians can hear him explain his support for McCain-Lieberman.

    =======================================

    Eric:

    Ironically, I like George Phillies personally, even though he’s a total Dweeb (and he himself knows this). I had George on my radio show the other night. We had a great chat. He’s good people. But DEFINITELY NOT! Presidential material.

    Paul) Essentially correct.


    The Phillies people don’t bash me, but the Kubby people do.

    Paul) Who’s bashing you, Eric?

    I kinda like you, you seem to be a hard worker and have at least some pro-liberty views. I welcome your hard work and solid efforts when you are right about some issues, as happens every once in a while.

    You’re frequently so far off base as to be on a whole other planet - let’s call it Planet Eric - and I find that to be amusing and entertaining when you describe events on your planet and make them sound almost like they happened on Planet Earth.

    I don’t welcome your efforts to promote warmongers, or to turn the LP into
    some offshoot and training ground NSGOP secondary support party.

    I want to make the LP into a real party, completely separate from the NSGOP in all ways.

    To this end, I welcome your frequent explanations of already existing ties between the LP and the NSGOP. They illustrate exactly what the problem in the LP is. The next step is to solve this problem, which is what we want to do through the Kubby campaign.

  62. paulie cannoli Says:

    Nothing against Eric Dondero, but Paulie Cannoli is right. Libertarians should be very leery of anyone who’s more concerned about hurting his “standing within the Republican Party” than in promoting the LP. Wayne Root, who can probably rattle off the lines in tonight’s NBA matchups without missing a beat, is a charlatan. Like many other Republicans these days, Mr. Root - a guy who claims to apply the principles of Wall Street to sports gambling - hasn’t made an honest buck in years and probably couldn’t identify the “Sunni Triangle” on a map if his life depended on it.

    Paul: Darcy is right on the money.

    As you can see from the comments at knappster.blogspot.com which started out in a discussion of the possible demise of the politics1.com website:

    ===========================================

    KNAPP: When those rumours about Ron Paul started flying around in 1986, had Paul just written a book called Texas Republican, and had he just endorsed a Bush/Quayle presidential ticket for 1988? Did he publicly mull running for president on the LP ticket if if that was okay with his area GOP leaders, and if he didn’t think it would hurt his chances of being a Republican nominee for US Senate later on?

    Those are big differences, even setting aside the fact that Paul was a former congresscritter in 1986, while in 2006 Root is just an obscure (despite his, and your, attempts to hype him into a “celebrity”) gambler.

    If he’s silly enough to let himself be snookered into running, he’ll be better known in the LP than Tim Slagle—but for similar reasons. The difference is that Slagle likes to be laughed at by Libertarians.

    GATTIES: For the record, I’m a huge sports nut and huge into sports betting, and I’ve never heard of Wayne Root either. Yeah, I’m sure people who jack off religiously to the newspaper when odds are printed may know who he is, but unless you are into that sorta fetish, he’s pretty unknown.

    Jason Gatties

    ===========================================

    BTW I believe Gatties is a Phillies supporter, so if Eric wants to spin me agreeing with Tom Knapp into “Kubby staffers attacking him” then he can call Gatties a Phillies staffer, plus Phillies himself has commented on Root unfavorably, unless of course Eric thinks that Phillies likes McCain and Lieberman.

    Darcy:
    Compared to this clown, Steve Kubby, George Phillies and every other Libertarian Party presidential hopeful suddenly becomes Lincolnesque!

    That would be true, if “Lincolnesque” was actually a good thing.

    Although I’m not sure. I think Wayne Root can probably hold his own in a debate with Bob Milnes and Gene Chapman.

  63. paulie cannoli Says:

    Darcy:

    One last thought. Libertarians should be grateful that Eric Dondero was able to get to the “Root” of the problem. The LP has been too closely identified with the Right, with Republicanism and all of that party’s evil misdeeds. The Libertarian Party’s real constituency is on the Left—- the millions of antiwar, pro-choice and anti-establishment, freedom-loving Americans without a party they can call their own.

    Come home, America. Come home, LP.

    This is exactly why I like Eric. He loves to point out the problem with the LP, although he does not realize it is a problem.

  64. matt Says:

    And Matt, I mind a great deal that you are trying to stear the Libertarian movement away from our real goals of fighting Fascism in all its forms.
    =======================================
    Eric, war has, in recent history, ALWAYS been accompanied by the usurpation of individual rights on the home front. Freedom of information and our right to privacy have already been infringed upon and there isn’t anything libertarian about that. Even if you can morally tolerate war (I can’t, which puts me in good company), you must have noticed that it restricts personal freedom. As far as “fighting fascism” goes, ‘the muslims’ are about as likely to impose Sharia here as they are to sprout wings and fly to madagascar for the winter.

    I defer to you on LP history. I don’t have an amazing grasp on it, and apparently you do. I’ll never defer to anyone on foriegn war. It’s a cancer that’s dragging our society down and it’s entirely unnecessary.

  65. paulie cannoli Says:

    Eric

    Darcy sounds like you were in a comma on September 11, 2001.

    Let me bring you up to speed.

    On that day Islamic Terrorists attacked our Nation killing nearly 3,000 of your fellow citizens.

    C’mon Eric, you know better.

    http://911truth.org/

    Your Bush gang attacked America, so that Americans would give them more power to terrorize us and the rest of the world even more, and so on in a vicious never-ending cycle.

    But even if your silly “19 Arabs with boxcutters” regime-promoted conspiracy theory was true, what of it?

    Read this:


    Why do they hate America?
    It has nothing to do with freedom, lifestyle, or religion.

    You’ve been given a perfectly logical explanation for why radical Muslims
    hate America.

    1) Millions in US military aid every year to Israel
    2) “Infidel” American troops in their holy land of Arabia
    3) The invasion #1 of Iraq and subsequent embargo, at that point
    responsible for approximately a million dead Iraqis (half kids, “worth it”
    according to Madeleine Albright). Since then, about another million.

    So naturally the solution to this just HAS to be to do even more of the same, kill more millions of Muslims, occupy more of their countries, and that won’t invite any blowback, right?

  66. paulie cannoli Says:

    Darcy

    Well, isn’t that the whole point of the Libertarian Party? To stamp out authoritarianism, enlighten the masses, and let freedom ring? Freedom entails the truth, as painful as that might be at times.

    The fact that Kubby’s folks are criticizing you - an acknowledged apologist for Dubya’s cruel, mindless, and disastrous destruction of Iraq, an unwarranted war that’s resulted in more than 655,000 deaths - is all the more reason that their presidential candidate should be nominated in Denver.

    Sounds like a damn good campaign organization to me.

    Any interest in volunteering for the campaign in any capacity?

    We need all the help we can get. If you are willing to do anything at all contact Tom Knapp.
    kubby.communications at gmail dot com

  67. paulie cannoli Says:

    Any press for Kubby or Phillies?

    Bush vs. Beyonce Video Includes Kubby
    Steve Kubby appears briefly in this music video parody of Beyonce’s #1 single “Irreplaceable,” and it examines the political overtones in her lyrics. With George W. Bush’s approval ratings at an all-time low and Beyonce’s song at the top of the Billboard charts, the video has become a smash hit on YouTube, scoring over 7,500 hits in its first 3 days on the Internet.
    Of course it’s been out a lot longer now.
    http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/video-test-bush-vs-beyonce/

    Kubby.com Leads in
    Presidential Website Rankings
    Libertarian Steve Kubby is the early leader in the presidential website rankings, according to traffic ranking data from Alexa.com
    http://thenextprez.blogspot.com/2006/11/kubbycom-leads-presidential-website.html

    RANKED 1ST AMONG THIRD PARTY AND INDEPENDENTS
    For the second week in a row, the popular blog The Next Prez has rated Steve Kubby the #1 candidate from any third party or independent candidate. (that was a few weeks ago, don’t know about since then).

    LP National Chair Comments
    on Kubby running for President
    William Redpath, the National Chairman of the Libertarian Party appeared on CSPAN’s Washington Journal and immediately thought of Steve Kubby when asked about Libertarians running for President.
    http://kubby.com/lp-stevekubby.wmv

    Recently, Steve Kubby was invited to speak at the 34th Annual Cancer Control Society Convention. Since 1973, the Cancer Control Society has brought life-saving information to thousands of patients and their families. Over 50 speakers, 6 movies and 80 exhibits were presented at the Sheraton Universal Hotel in Hollywood, California during the Labor Day Weekend.

    KUBBY ANNOUNCES BID FOR PRESIDENT

    SEATTLE—Steve Kubby announced his candidacy for the Libertarian Party nomination for President to more than 50,000 cheering fans on Sunday, August 20, at the 15th annual Seattle Hempfest in Seattle, Washington. More than 150,000 attended the event held in Myrtle Edwards Park on the shores of Puget Sound.

    Kubby in the News (left column) at
    http://kubby.com/00-kubbynews.html

    See the archive of past (pre-presidential campaign) coverage
    http://kubby.com/00-news.html

  68. paulie cannoli Says:

    Eric Asks:

    Any press for Kubby or Phillies?

    While my response is awaiting moderation, the answer is at

    http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2007/01/03/kubby-in-the-news/

  69. Eric Dondero Says:

    Let’s see a show of hands???

    How many of you here would agree with Darcy that the War in Afghanistan was a mistake? How many of you agree that we should not have had any response to 9/11? How many of you agree that pacifism is the answer, and that diplomacy with Radical Muslims is the best way to solve our problems with them?

    Paulie Cannoli? Matt? Others here?

    Come on you all. Have the courage of your convictions.

    How many of you all opposed the War in Afghanistan?

  70. paulie cannoli Says:

    How many of you here would agree with Darcy that the War in Afghanistan was a mistake?

    Me. More on why a little later.

    How many of you agree that we should not have had any response to 9/11?

    With whom? Personally, I think we should impeach the USSA regime terrorists who were actually responsible, and then put them up for civilian trial as war criminals.

    How many of you agree that pacifism is the answer,

    Not me.

    why use the loaded and false term
    pacifism?

    It means “opposition to war or violence of any kind.” I don’t oppose violence in self-defense, I disagree with your idea that your crusade is
    defensive.

    Our ideological difference lies in who the enemy is, and/or whether
    the war is defensive in nature, not whether self-defense is justifiable.

    We all agree that self-defense is justifiable.

    We disagree that the present war is defensive: true libertarians
    believe it is offensive, and that people who defend it are also
    offensive and should be shunned from our movement and party.

    At the very least until they see their error on this issue, and even
    then we should be careful to come to understand what caused them to
    make such a massive error to begin with.

    Some of us believe the USSA regime is the enemy. That does not mean
    that the enemy of our enemy is our friend, so we don’t think Islamic
    extremists are our friend either, but since Islamic extremists don’t
    pose any dannger to our liberty here at home and the US regime does,
    we have to pick our battles.

    and that diplomacy with Radical Muslims is the best way to solve our problems with them?

    Step one would be to quit stirring the hornet’s nest over there.

    When you say “our” problem with them, you are self-identifying with the regime, which is a big part of the mindset that leads to the problems over there. I discuss this further in the comments at

    http://lastfreevoice.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/tearism/

  71. Timothy West Says:

    I’ll never defer to anyone on foreign war.

    I’ll state that The Civil War and WW2 was entirely justified both morally and in number of lives lost. All other wars America has been involved in have been fabrications and lie based ruses for the benefit of the military-industrial-congressional complex and their backers. Especially, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and now Iraq.

    chattel race based slavery was a greater evil than the northern designs of the industrial bosses at that time, but that set the stage for even worse problems.

    I supported ousting of the taliban and hunting for Bin Laden at first.

    After I got hip when I realized Bush was not after BIn Laden, I knew it was just another MIC phony war that the MIC has to have every few years so the money tap can be turned on again to the complex.

    wars are profitable. there is no profit in peace.

  72. matt Says:

    Unless you count young boys getting to raise families and live to old age and balance grandchildren on their knees while the fruit of their labor accrues value all around them. That’s the profit of peacetime. Not that the Kochs or the Halliburtons want it spread around.

    Which is my way of saying I couldn’t agree more with your final thought. I have my doubts about ww2 and the yankee war, but that’s a whole other topic.

  73. paulie cannoli Says:

    Not much doubt here.

    Those were scams like the rest of them….

  74. paulie cannoli Says:

    Eric, re: Root

    We’re looking at the possible makings of the best, most professionally-run, agressive Presidential Campaign for the Libertarian Party in history.

    Yeah right. He intends to run, if at all, part time while maintaining his scummy business and his Republican viability for Senator or Mayor, with the LP presindetial race as a secondary sideline.

  75. paulie cannoli Says:

    Yeah, ole’ George W. Bush is dumb alright. What’s he got, degrees from both Yale and Princeton. Gotta be pretty damn dumb to get degrees from those “community college like” institutions.

    Hey, family money, legacy and connections can’t buy much these days, can they? Nah….

    And all that crap about him scoring higher on his entrance exams than John F’ing Kerry, was just hype. I mean after all just because you can check the records at those institutions doesn’t make it true.

    Wonder who took his tests for him?

  76. paulie cannoli Says:

    Duh! Could it have a little something to do with the fact that the Libertarian Movement was FOUNDED BY A FLAMING RIGHTWING??? Dana Rohrabacher, Chairman of the YAF Libertarian Caucus 1966-69.

    What a load of hooey! After 25 years in the movement Eric has no idea that the libertarian movement was around before the late 1960s?

    Eric, who do you think you’re bullshitting?

    I know you know about folks like Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism; Lysander Spooner; Ludwig von Mises; Pierre-Joseph Proudhon; Karl Hess;
    and so many more over the centuries.

    Not that I believe you could really be that ignorant, but you could use wikipedia and google to learn more about them.

    You know, though, for an accomplished spinmeister you’re kinda falling down on the job. You really embarass yourself when you make such easily disproven statements, and that does not help your credibility here or anywhere else.

    And the Libertarian Party was founded by the Chairman of the Colorado Young Republicans, David Nolan.

    David Nolan on the Kubby Story and why it matters:

    http://www.kubby.com/00-intro.html

    And 7 out of 8 Libertarian Party Presidential candidates came from the Republican Party, while 3 and 1/2 returned. (The half is for Andre Marrou. Rumors have been circulating for years that he went back to the GOP, but are unconfirmed. The other three are of course, MacBride who ended up despising the LP years before his death, Ron Paul, and Bush supporter John Hospers.)

    Not too mention that practically every prominent elected official of the Libertarian Party since it’s inception, particularly the 8 state legislators from Alaska and New Hampshire ended up Caucusing with the GOP once in office.

    All this, just might lead one to the conclusion that, gasp! Libertarians are indeed Right-wingers.

    Actually the conclusion is, gasp! That is what is wrong with the Libertarian Party: it is out of balance and does not represent a full picture of the libertarian philosophy to the public.

    The movement began on the left, where Bastiat sat in the French Parliament, and which is why liberal and libertarian sound alike.

    http://mises.org/story/2099

    And that’s where we have to return to be relevant.

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3114

  77. paulie cannoli Says:

    Darcy says: The fact that Kubby’s folks are criticizing you - an acknowledged apologist for Dubya’s cruel, mindless, and disastrous destruction of Iraq, an unwarranted war that’s resulted in more than 655,000 deaths - is all the more reason that their presidential candidate should be nominated in Denver.

    Then Eric brings up his misconceptions about 9/11.

    Then Darcy says: Funny you mention that, Eric, but I don’t remember any of the hijackers being from Iraq. Nor do I remember Saddam Hussein financing any of the atrocious activities on September 11. Curiously, according to almost every U.S. and international investigative source, it seems that almost all of the financing for that horrible terrorist attack came from the Saudis—- the Middle East country with the closest ties to the Bush family.

    To which Eric replies: So, I guess what you’re saying is Number One, you were in favor of the War in Afghanistan, and that you do still support having US Troops over there, correct? Let’s get you on record. I mean, you quickly brought up Saddam Hussein. Our initial response was against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Why did you ignore commenting on that War?

    Paul) Because you were the one who brought up 9/11 in response to discussion of Iraq.

    For myself, I was against both invasion/occupations from the start.

    Since I’ve posted about this a lot and discussed this with Eric at length, why would he ask now whether I support the Afghani war? C’mon now.

    Number two, you are a victim of gross liberal media bias. There WERE ABSOLUTELY CONNECTIONS between Iraqi Intelligence and Al Queda, numourous documented instances. But of course, the leftwing press chose to pooh-pooh the evidence or downplay it.

    That’s because this “evidence” consisted of fantasies and deliberate lies.

    Logic alone would prove that Islamic extremists would want nothing to do with a secular ruler. They consider such rulers to be traitors to Islam. He would not trust them any more than they would trust him.

    But Al-Qaida is just a CIA/mossad/MI5 front anyway.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html

    Not only that, there’s numerous evidence to indicate that Saddam was actually behind the Oklahoma City Bombing. In fact, the Congressional Oversight Comm. just released the report on that the day before Christmas, chastising the FBI for not following up on the Middle Eastern connections, and for ignoring Jayna Davis.

    It was an AP story. Sorry you missed that one.

    Darcy already addressed that little misconception..

    Then there’s the USS Starke. The Iraqis bombed the Starke in 1986 killing 36 US Sailors.

    Certainly worth 3,000 dead Americans in Iraq alone, more than died on 9/11, plus 2 million dead Iraqis from the wars and embargo 1991-2007,
    and that’s not even getting into Afghanistan.

    Then there’s the invasion of Kuwait.

    Gillespie. Green Light. Next topic…

  78. paulie cannoli Says:

    Then there’s the gassing of 200,000 Kurds in Kurdistan.

    Highly dubious.

    see Jude Wanninski’s articles

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski11.html

    and

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski32.html

    for a different perspective.

    Also,

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski95.html

    and

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski89.html

    and

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski44.html

    Wanninski archive:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski-arch.html

    Are you starting to see a pattern here? Or, would you have rather kept Saddam Hussein in office as President of Iraq?

    Given the results of his removal, I would have rather kept him.

    He was a scumbag but what’s happened since, and what is likely to happen next is even worse.

    Even if it were some wonderful fantasy government taking over after Hussein, instead of the unraveling civil war mess it actually is, it wouldn’t be worth the lives of all the Americans who have died there.

    As it stands, it was even less worth it.

  79. paulie cannoli Says:

    Comment to the rest of that post from Eric is awaiting moderation.

  80. paulie cannoli Says:

    “Let me guess Darcy, you’re talking about the BBC, Al Jazeera and CNN here, right? Those are your “independent” sources.”

    All three of those networks are far superior to Faux News.

    True.

  81. paulie cannoli Says:

    And, no, I wasn’t in a “comma” that day. I was in a semi-colon, or some other independent clause.

    We’ll have no more of this wishy-washiness! If you’re going to go into the colon, go into the colon all the way. Only a surrender monkey would go into a semi-colon :-)

  82. paulie cannoli Says:

    Nigel

    So would I. That’s why I’m for George Phillies. Phillies has already created radio ads that all Libertarian campaigns can use (and some have used them, too), and plans to distribute media contact information to help all Libertarian campaigns.

    I’m glad we are both for Libertarian candidates who intend to help build the
    party and movement. Unlike Eric’s dream candidate who only wants to build himself, his sport betting operation, and his list for a NSGOP Senate run.

    Also, I’m glad Phillies is producing radio ads and media contact lists.


    Phillies also won’t do any damage to the LP himself - he’s running on issues the average American cares a great deal about without sacrificing principles.

    But, I think his stance on immigration does violate our principles, and the way he explains it is downright embarassing.

    http://pauliecannoli.wordpress.com/2006/12/30/lpa-repost-ii-loretta-and-phillies/

    I gather we agree on the second part of that.

    A lot more on the immigration issue in the comments at
    http://thirdpartywatch.com/2006/12/29/2008-lp-convention-location-announced/#comments

  83. paulie cannoli Says:

    You actually opposed the War in Afghanistan? I don’t even think our resident pacifist Paulie would agree with you on that one.

    I’m not a pacifist according to the dictionary definition. But I do agree with Darcy and Tim West about Afghanistan.

    So, I guess the proper US foreign policy is to hand over our country to Islamo-Fascists, and let them know that we want more of the same that they did to us on 9/11, huh?

    No, it’s to take our country away from the real fascists

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis46.html

    and let them know we don’t want more of the same that they did to us on 9/11.

    It’s one thing to oppose the War in Iraq. Quite another to oppose the War in Afghanistan.

    We should oppose both. Both were based on lies, and both have been disasters and quagmires.

  84. paulie cannoli Says:

    Tim

    I’m on the mend - i think.

    Glad 2 hear.

    happy 007.

  85. paulie cannoli Says:

    Darcy

    By the way, Eric. Any word yet on when the citizens of Baghdad—- at least those lucky enough to still be living—- will have continuous running water and electricity, something they routinely enjoyed before Bush’s illegal invasion?

    I guess we’ll hear back on that right about the same time Eric fills out some of those military (re)enlistment forms Andy hooked him up with, along with the info for which ones he is still eligible for at his age, with active units currently in Iraq. This on the heels of Eric saying last year that he would gladly reenlist if only he wasn’t too old. Maybe he’s aged a lot this last year?

  86. paulie cannoli Says:

    “And Matt, I mind a great deal that you are trying to stear the Libertarian movement away from our real goals of fighting Fascism in all its forms.”

    Eric, you’re the one cozying up to fascists. You started “Libertarians for Bush” and “Libertarians for Lieberman”.

    We’re not starting “Libertarians for Saddam” or “Libertarians for Osama,” except on planet Eric perhaps.

    “Dana Rohrabacher is the Founder of the Libertarian movement, not Michael Moore. I suggest you go back and read some Libertarian history. You’re obvioulsy grossly ignorant of the very movement you claim to be a part of.”

    Backatya. See above. Rohrabacher was not the founder of the movement, it was around long before him.

  87. Timothy West Says:

    paulie,

    in no way do I support that 9/11 was anything other than it was - a brilliantly planned and executed plot to attack the center symbol of Americas faux profit machinery.

    I reject conspiracy plots as a rule. My reasoning is that since America does so much damage and turmoil around the world as a result of the MIC and the “intellengence” industries operation, there is never a shortage of people who would like to attack the us. The only conspiracy is why such people keep getting into positions of power, and you know the answer to that one.

    but no, 9/11 was not a US conspiracy. It didn’t have to be. Our own policies assure that there will always be people ready to kill themselves to attack us.

  88. paulie cannoli Says:

    Tim:

    9/11 was not a US conspiracy. It didn’t have to be. Our own policies assure that there will always be people ready to kill themselves to attack us.

    They do indeed, but I think it was nonetheless.

    We’ve discussed the evidence for and against this plenty of times before, so no need to go off on that tangent.

    Perhaps the right people just did not come forward on their own quickly enough. They weren’t taking the bait, so it had to be staged.

    I don’t know.

    I was pretty skeptical about regime conspiracy claims initially, until I looked at the evidence. But my initial analysis was exactly what yours is now.

    I agree that it would have happened sooner or later without a regime conspiracy; it may just be that it would not have happened fast enough or reliably enough.

    I reject conspiracy plots as a rule.

    But the official story is a conspiracy plot too, just a different one.

    There is no way for it NOT to have been a conspiracy.

    So the only question is WHICH conspiracy.

    My reasoning is that since America does so much damage and turmoil around the world as a result of the MIC and the “intellengence” industries operation, there is never a shortage of people who would like to attack the us.

    True, but that is not the same as there being people who actually have the will power to follow through on that desire and the competence to carry it out successfully.

    The number of people who would want to is legion.

    The number of people who can it make it happen is fewer.

    The number who fall in both categories is pretty small, and so perhaps the timetable had to be moved forward artificially.

    After all, “We” have patriot acts to pass, countries to invade and rebuild, pipelines to construct, defense contracts to fulfill, stock options to excercise, and all kinds of other important action items that can’t just wait forever while some stone-age religious fanatic weirdos in a cave decide to get off the squat-pit, get their shit together and make it happen.

    I’ve seen this phenomenon before: there was an open contract out on Saddam in the early to mid 90s (confidential sources), and it took this long for him to get taken out.

    You reckon Halliburton et al. wanted to sit around and wait for an indeterminate length of time?

    But this IS a tangent. Your explanation is already good enough to oppose both the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions.

    At the time when I shared the opinion you have now, my reasoning was that the innocent people of Afghanistan were not responsible for the actions of the Taliban, and that the Taliban had merely made an entirely reasonable request that Bush give them evidence that Osama is guilty before handing him over.

    If there was a foreign national living in America and some other third government (not US and not this person’s country) asked to extradite him, I think the US regime would certainly reasonably demand that before they would consider doing so they be shown some evidence of guilt.

    All I said we agree about was that “we” (US regime) should not be in Afghanistan.

    Not about which conspiracy theory of 9/11 is correct, because either way the invasion and occupation of Afganistan is still wrong.

  89. Timothy West Says:

    I would say the attack on the taliban was justified before the other show was dropped vis a vis Iraq. as long as the US effort was targeted on Bin Laden, I supported it. When it became clear that something else was afoot, I stopped.

  90. matt Says:

    At one point, I think Ron Paul advocated putting a bounty on bin Laden’s head. That would have been better than this, although, as paulie has pointed out, wehave no proof the attack was carried out by anyone connected with bin Laden.We should have had a grand jury investigate 9/11. If we’d done that, there’d be a lot more straight answers all around. Perhaps we’d have ended up putting the bounty on the head of the Mossad or something.

  91. paulie cannoli Says:

    ERIC: Then there’s the gassing of 200,000 Kurds in Kurdistan.

    PAUL: Highly dubious.

    see Jude Wanninski’s articles

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski11.html

    and

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski32.html

    for a different perspective.

  92. paulie cannoli Says:

    Some more of Wanninski’s articles:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski95.html

    and

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski89.html

    and

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski44.html

    Wanninski archive:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski-arch.html

    ERIC: Are you starting to see a pattern here? Or, would you have rather kept Saddam Hussein in office as President of Iraq?

    PAUL: Given the results of his removal, I would have rather kept him.

    He was a scumbag but what’s happened since, and what is likely to happen next is even worse.

    Even if it were some wonderful fantasy government taking over after Hussein, instead of the unraveling civil war mess it actually is, it wouldn’t be worth the lives of all the Americans who have died there, much less all the Iraqis.

    As it stands, it was even less worth it.

    Given that Saddam was removed a long time, imprisoned a long time ago, and now killed, he can’t possibly be your excuse for the continued US regime military occupation of Iraq, can he?

  93. Phil Sawyer Says:

    Like Darcy and Paul, I also was and remain opposed to the Bush-Cheney Administrations’s Imperial Wars Against Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Flower Power! Make love not war! Power to the People!

  94. Nick Wilson Says:

    Eric,

    If your concern is truly about so-called “Islamo-fascists,” then why did you support deposing one of the most secularist regimes in the Middle East who was pretty much loathed by al Qaeda up until he became an easy martyr, fallen to an even greater “evil” - the US? Don’t get me wrong - Hussein deserved the fate that befell him, but setting up a democracy in Iraq was bound to turn into a theocracy from the beginning, considering the close ties between the majority Shiites and the Iranian regime. Not to mention a civil war. I predicted both before the war began. The latter came true, and I predict that the former will after the US forces leave, within a number of years countable on one hand - regardless of when the US leaves, of course. Signs are already indicating it will happen. It’s pure pretending to think that sticking around for a limitless quantity of time will eventually magically make the parties involved peaceful and democratic.

    I did support the war in Afghanistan by the way, but think that it was poorly executed and thus failed at accomplishing any of it’s objectives, and I feel like Iraq was primarily a distraction to divert our eyes away from this failure. Now the Taliban is regrouping and bin Laden is still missing. This is the problem you constantly ignore - the US has only bred terrorists faster than we can kill them, and every terrorist we kill, we create a network of people who will take up arms to avenge their deaths. Notice how Iraq has become a black hole of terrorist operations - because it is easy to stimulate outrage when images of US troops invading their land, torturing their prisoners, and killing their children are abundant. So much for “eliminating” “Islamo-fascism.” I would argue the Bush Administration has inadvertantly been the stimulus for a great deal more of it, even though “islamo-fascism” is not an accurate term to describe them.

    But you were never one for reason, Eric.

  95. Darcy G. Richardson Says:

    As usual, excellent comments by Paul and Nick. Nick’s prediction that “Iraq was bound to turn into a theocracy” is right on the mark. The Bush Administration has been deeply worried that Iraq will turn into a caliphate, yet that is precisely what their misguided invasion and never-ending occupation of that once civilized country have created. The fact that several of Saddam’s executioners were chanting “Muqtada” - a taunting reference to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr - as they brutally hung the deposed Iraqi leader last week, seems to confirm their worst fears.

  96. nicrivera Says:

    Darcy sounds like you were in a comma on September 11, 2001.

    Eric, I think you mean “coma.” A “comma” is what Bush said the Iraq War debacle would look like “when the final history is written on Iraq.”

    Please, Eric, for the love of God, don’t encourage Republican warmongers to infiltrate the Libertarian Party. They’ve done enough damage in the Republican Party.

  97. paulie cannoli Says:

    So much for “eliminating” “Islamo-fascism.” I would argue the Bush Administration has inadvertantly been the stimulus for a great deal more of it, even though “islamo-fascism” is not an accurate term to describe them.

    I agree, except for the “inadvertantly” part.

  98. Jake Witmer Says:

    Hmmm. There are very good remarks on both sides here, in my opinion.

    Victory #1 goes primarily to “the left” / “former left” camp: Libertarians are not left nor are they right. (Repeat this to yourself, when you feel the urge to regress to the level of “defending “the Left”” —Your left is every bit as meaningless as Eric’s “Right”.)

    Victory # 2 goes primarily to “the right” / “former right” camp: The Libertarian Party will never amount to a hill of fully-digested beans by “identifying with the left”. Talking in ways that will appeal to the left, sure… But not identifying with “the left” anymore than we can identify with McCain or Bush or frothy ‘Santorum’. Sure: we can ideantify with Americans who are still calling themselves left. But, if they are left, or right, they are—at best—“still on the path” to becoming Libertarians.

    The left is ACTUALLY worse here though. Look at their body count. The fascist right can loosely claim Hitler (~22,000,000 innocent civilians killed domestically). The Left can claim Mao: 55,000,000 innocent civilians slain, Stalin 50,000,000 innocent civilians slain during peacetime, Pol Pot (killed fewer, but was more thorough, and more perfectly described as leftist -killed 95% of his country’s innocent civilians during peacetime). Plus, look at the LEFTISTS that GAVE Hitler power -appeasers who cannot defend freedom, because they lack a philosophical understanding of what freedom is. See: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills “The Ominous Parallels” by Leonard Peikoff, “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William L. Shirer

    Moreover, the touchy-feely left that wants to subsidize failure is the very worst antithesis to freedom that exists. The idea that a “democratic” decision to abort a limited government’s “Republic” (I know, I know, would only that such an animal were to actually exist!) is vastly more repugnant to individual freedom than the concept of a libertarian who favors a Constitutional Republic. (A libertarian-Republican). Such an animal is proven possible by Ron Paul and Milton Friedman alone.

    Point # 3 Goes to the “Canolli Camp”—-Sure, Eric is coming from “Planet Eric” when he defends Lieberman and McCain. —Leave out the issue of war, and Lieberman and McCain are conventional Statists, actively pursuing the destruction of freedom, in misguided attempts to “reach out to the populist base”.

    Eric is trying to weild political influence here, to build coalitions, where none are to be had. ...Even many totally compromised portions of “the Right” despise McCain and Lieberman. For instance, the (least compromised portions of the) NRA: HATE both of these jagoffs for trying to infringe on the first and thus second amendments to the US Constitution. (And this is true even though the NRA is usually—99% of the time—nothing more than a mouthpiece for the Republican Party.)

    Point # 4 goes to Eric: In good conscience, there are libertarians (who often call themselves “objectivists”) who favor preemptively killing the very most backwards and freedom-hating people among us, before they can claim even one more life on American soil. Should they ever do this quickly, quietly, skillfully, without making it an orgy of death and destruction—both US military and foreign civilian in nature—-, I might add, these libertarians would have a much stronger philosophical leg to stand on. I would definitely be one of them, AT SUCH A POINT. I currently do not support the Iraq wars. The needless US casualties were however initiated by a man who has killed more US diabetics than Iraqi civilians: Donald Rumsfeld. (When he was CEO of Nutrasweet, Nutrasweet lobbied the FDA to make labeling products with plant sweetener Stevia rebaudiana illegal, thus creating the choice: cancer and liver failure or diabetes? The four members of the FDA advisory board that made this decision went to work at Nutrasweet in high-paying desk jobs. As such, Donald Rumsfeld has built a career off of weilding government force “preemptively”. Are any of you liberal jag-offs crying about those “deaths by regulation”? —Only if you’re LIBERTARIANS, and not LEFTISTS)

    Point # 5 goes to Eric: Root can build a much larger coalition than Kubby can.

    Point # 6 goes to the Cannoli Club: Does Root want to switch to the LP and seriously run, and not do an embarrassing “Ross Perot-style” belly flop?
    I think he does. He will either allay my fears, by diving in aggressively, or he will cause me to support Kuppy, or whatever “Liberwho?” candidate the National LP decides to run.

    Point # 7 goes to Eric: The Libertarian Party has been the pot-smoker philosophizer club for 35 years. Without building on what could potentially be growing awareness within the media, and hard won successes at appealing to noteworthy celebrities, WE WILL CONTINUE TO FLOUNDER.

    Point # 7a goes to Eric: The Libertarian Party is a political Party. That means: WE WILL HAVE TO COMPROMISE SOMETIMES: TO NOT TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, BECAUSE THERE IS SIMPLY NOT TIME TO EDUCATE “JOE SIXPACK”.

    This is really the entire reason I am a supporter of Eric’s line of reasoning, and belive it is worth while to try to rein him in when he goes too far towards “Planet Eric” (defenses of McCain, et alee…).

    The Libertarian Party often chooses to nominate people who will CAN NOT, and thusly will not reach US VOTERS who are sympathetic to libertarian ideas.

    Reaching those voters is what makes us a Political Party, and not just
    1) Professional distributors / promoters of Aaron Russo’s Film
    2) Members of the WTF foundation
    3) gun owners willing to defend people like Ed Brown
    4) Economics nerds who try to explain the relation of freedom to economics to open-minded people among us

    A political party exists to alter the use of force by winning elections, as a substitute for OPEN BLOODSHED. ONLY. That’s what it is.

    So tell me, to all the many thousands of Joe Sixpacks out there, all of who believe we are what they first imagine the “new word” to be, what ARE we?

    1) Libbuh-what?
    2) Liberal aryan? —Are you racist?
    3) If it’s liberal I don’t want nuthin’ to do with it!
    4) Oh yeah, I am a liberal! I support the environment!
    5) Libe